[SERVER] Very Boring and Conservative Balance 0.12.2

Discussion in 'Released Mods' started by Quitch, April 12, 2017.

  1. Quitch

    Quitch Post Master General

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    Given crash dumps don't upload anymore you'd need to attach them manually, though I'm not in a position to understand them. All I can say is that I haven't experienced any crashes through the mod.

    Are you testing with all other mods disabled?
  2. Quitch

    Quitch Post Master General

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    Version 0.8 - 2018-02-19

    GLOBAL
    • Queller AI Uber fixes and improvements
    • Consistent targeting across weapon types (see readme for details)
  3. MrTBSC

    MrTBSC Post Master General

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    tested with some mods and the latter games without any

    what do you mean with manualy .. how should i do that?
  4. Quitch

    Quitch Post Master General

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  5. Quitch

    Quitch Post Master General

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    Version 0.9 - 2018-03-03

    AI
    • Stripped out Queller changes
    LAND
    • GIL-E
      • Restored damage from 400 to 350
  6. netpyxa

    netpyxa Active Member

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    Regarding the Hornet and its role in Titans.

    I think that it is clearly not a counter to the Galata turrets and was never actually supposed to be one by the developers. WIth the range of 180 vs 160 its impossible to keep them alive. The Angel is a counter to Galatas instead.

    The hornet is a counter to flak units: both Storm and a turret.

    Gunships cant handle flak well because they are within its reach and neither can bumblebees. Only Hornets can because they have a significant range advantage : 180 vs 100 or 80.

    Given how dominant air play is including 1v1s, any buffs to air should be very very conservative IMO. Sometimes you just dont know how to handle it. Air restricts your expansions and produces a huge advantage to the one which manages to win it. Everyone goes bots, air x3 and then tech.

    PS the most important point of my post is that perhaps the devs have never actually intended to make Wyrm a counter to the galatas and its limited range of 180 is actually a deliberate decision.
    Last edited: March 3, 2018
  7. Quitch

    Quitch Post Master General

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    Except in its current form the Hornet does not see use because it fills no role. It is no good as a Flak counter because where Flak exists too too will Galata. And even without that it's half the speed of the Kestrel so lacks the mobility that makes air so powerful in the first place. Not only do I not believe the Hornet is a good Flak counter, I don't think that is enough to give it a place even if it were. Better to buy more Kestrels and cripple everything on the map without Flak, enjoying a cheaper unit that moves at twice the speed with more HP.

    Nor does the Hornet counter Storms, the Kestrel does that just fine. Or did. The Storm has been changed to stop that in this mod because Flak should put a stop to Kestrels be it static or mobile.

    The counter to Galatas are either ground troops or overwhelming them with Kestrels, or even Bumblebees if your air gets that big. You certainly wouldn't bring an Angel in vanilla, a unit which doesn't stop enough missiles for its cost, and in bringing it you just crippled your air force's speed, negating one of air's biggest advantages.

    So the change to range is to allow it to actually fill a role, that of siege air while still being vulnerable to the GIL-E (which continues to out-range it). Of course if testing shows that this makes it too dominant then of course the whole approach will be reexamined. I doubt it though because the power of air is in its speed, allowing you to strike anywhere with your full might, and the Hornet does not have that speed. Combined with the cost reduction in the Angel it allows you to choose between the traditionally speedy Kestrel flood, or a slower snipe force.
    Last edited: March 3, 2018
  8. netpyxa

    netpyxa Active Member

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    Maybe you are correct.

    Its just a pity that we dont have air fixed in titans and 1v1 matchmaking and can only aid this with the help of a mod. Kestrels sure can shut down storms (even if it requires micro to do so). Air is somewhat dominating the game imo. Usually people who wins air, wins the game. Im not sure we are getting any more patches in titans to help fix this.
  9. Quitch

    Quitch Post Master General

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    Version 0.10.0 - 2018-08-10

    LAND
    • Leveler
      • Restored cost from 600 to 800
    • Vanguard
      • Restored radar range from 200 to 150
  10. NikolaMX

    NikolaMX Member

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    Why the leveler and Gil-E nerfs again? as it is right now T2 tanks are terrible starting options even on maps like forge where they should be shining, which results in a shitton of turtling with T2 defenses cuz Bots cant push through those. The old leveler was perfect for dealing with that cancer
  11. Quitch

    Quitch Post Master General

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    I didn't really feel the evidence existed to support the changes that had been made, and this mod will always lean towards not having a change over having one.
  12. MrTBSC

    MrTBSC Post Master General

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    haven´t played with this mod in a while, but do you think you can implement something to the the hornet not launching missiles prematurely when giving specific targetorders?
  13. Quitch

    Quitch Post Master General

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    I don't know what that means.
  14. lulamae

    lulamae Well-Known Member

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    If you give an attack order on a specific target, most units will shoot at items of opportunity until the target is in range. This is opposed to the Zeus, which, when given a target to attack, ignores everything around it as it lumbers towards the target.

    MrTBSC is asking that Hornet behave like Zeus in this regard due to the long reload times.
  15. MrTBSC

    MrTBSC Post Master General

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    when trying to snipe a specific target, say the commander, if there is any other unit or structure on the hornet´s flightpath it will launch its missile at it and simply pass over the actual intended target as it reloading at the time messing up the snipeattempt ...

    guess i´ m onna take a look on the wyrm then as well .. you wouldn´t want preccisionunits with long reloads to fire at random targets when issuing specific targets ..
    Last edited: September 20, 2018
  16. MrTBSC

    MrTBSC Post Master General

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    so wyrms indeed do ignore other targets when issued a specific attack target order
    hmmm are hornets supposed to be more like ranged gunships ??
  17. Quitch

    Quitch Post Master General

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    Version 0.11 - 2018-09-20

    LAND
    • Ant
      • Added splash damage of 84
      • Added splash radius of 3
      • Added full dmg splash radius of 1

    JUSTIFICATION

    Ant

    Issue: The Ant is not fast enough to be a raider like the Dox, but also loses to the Dox in stand-up fights.

    Fix: Add splash damage in the same manner as the Leveler to allow it to win battles more effectively when deployed in numbers.

    Why: Changing the speed has it compete directly with the Dox, while changing health has wider knock on effects. Splash seemed the simplest way to impact Dox vs Ant fights, without too large an impact on other aspects of the balance.

    Skill impact: The inability of lower levels to micro their Dox is generally irrelevant once Dox blob, and at these same levels the players are unlikely to properly manage their Ants' range either.

    Mode impact: All

    Progression impact: Most significant in the early to mid-game, after which T2 will completely take over.
    Last edited: September 20, 2018
  18. acesoyster

    acesoyster Active Member

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    Did you test how this affects the value of the Spark? I'd definitely be wary of that one.
    Quitch likes this.
  19. Quitch

    Quitch Post Master General

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    Version 0.12 - 2018-09-30

    TRANSLATIONS
    LAND
    • Grenadier
      • Restored Rate of Fire from 0.4 to 0.5
      • Restored Yaw Range from 90 to 180
      • Restored Yaw Rate from 120 to 45
      • Reduced Firing Standard Deviation from 1.0 to 0
    • Locusts
      • Increased cost from 240 to 300
    • Spark
      • Restored Health from 120 to 130
    • Slammer
      • Increased cost from 450 to 530
    JUSTIFICATIONS

    Grenadier

    Issue: Was radically nerfed between Classic and Titans.

    Fix: Remove standard deviation from weapons.

    Why: Initially I attempted to find a comfortable half-way between classic and Titans, but due to the way yaw rate works it was possible to work around the slow turn and access the power it had in classic. It also had numerous knock on effects, leading to a change to the Spark and something uncomfortably close to rock/paper/scissors balance. The unit has seen increasing use in vanilla in specialised situations, and so little needs to be done. To reduce RNG the standard deviation has been removed to ensure the unit does what it's supposed to, but as it can't fire behind itself it can no longer be turned into a powerhouse through micro.

    Skill impact: None.

    Mode impact: All.

    Progression impact: None.

    Locusts

    Issue: A Locust raid can single-handedly win the game, but a failed raid doesn't cost the attack much.

    Fix: Increase Locusts cost.

    Why: The Locust is currently slightly too devastating. If just one or two slip through they can single-handedly destroy an economy. This requires significant investments in terms of mines, turrets and radar to prevent. If they're stopped it hasn't cost the attack much in time or metal. I don't feel the problem is so huge as to require a radical change, but with a small cost increase it becomes less practical to just keep throwing in Locusts, and a failure to penetrate defences has a greater cost to the attacker. This fits into a wider issue of many T2 units being too cheap for their effectiveness. It also adds four seconds to the build time, meaning it takes longer to mass them in numbers.

    Skill impact: Lower levels don't see significant Locust usage. At the higher levels this is intended to help make Locusts more of a choice and something a little less predictable. They will remain as devastating as ever if they get through.

    Mode impact: Versus modes. In FFAs the more defensive play makes Locusts less relevant.

    Progression impact: None.

    Slammer

    Issue: Following the increased cost of the Leveler, the Slammer has become to the T2 unit of choice, almost to the exclusion of all else.

    Fix: Increase Slammer cost.

    Why: Initially the Leveler's cost was restored, but on further examination I think the increased cost has led to better diversity coming out of the vehicle factory. Rather than the problem being the Leveler, the change to one dominant T2 unit has revealed another unit too powerful for its cost. A small cost increase has been deployed to compensate, and potentially promote better diversity from this factory as well.

    Skill impact: Lower levels better diversify their unit pools, therefore a cost change to one unit has a lower impact there than at the higher levels. At the higher levels the hope is that this leads to more choice about which T2 factory to tech to first, the diversity of units coming from the T2 bot factory, and maybe even improve the ability of T1 land to stay relevant.

    Mode impact: All.

    Progression impact: May help assist T1 land stay relevant for longer.
    Last edited: September 30, 2018
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  20. Quitch

    Quitch Post Master General

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    Like all things it needs more testing, but there are a couple of key differences:

    1. The Spark is much, much faster than an Ant. Almost 50%.
    2. The Spark has a much better AOE. It will chew threw Dox, where as the Ant splash is more something that tips the odds a little more heavily their way, but still requires current behaviour of maintaining distance as long as possible.

    I don't think they tread on each other's toes, but people need to try it to see how it works at all levels and playstyles. The other option I considered was a small speed boost, but I'm concerned that does tread on the toes of the Drifter too much.

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