[SERVER] Very Boring and Conservative Balance 0.12.2

Discussion in 'Released Mods' started by Quitch, April 12, 2017.

  1. Quitch

    Quitch Post Master General

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    I saw all those DOA balance mods and thought to myself "I want a piece of that action!"

    The MLA (vanilla faction) suffers from a very Total Annihilation problem: lots of units, many of them worthless. This mod intends to restore diversity to the faction, but without making hugely dramatic changes. The mod should feel familiar, with all units doing what you always expected them to do, but now being viable for their task. There will not be dramatic role changes.

    This mod is compatible with the Legion Expansion.

    Goal

    To build a proposal for changes to Titans' balance, one which works for all levels of play. All units should have some viable use, but the game should not switch from a philosophy of soft counters to hard counters. I wish to achieve this with the least number of changes possible.

    Feedback

    When providing feedback please be sure to describe the issue in as much detail as possible. You should include any information relevant to the issue such as map, build order, unit composition, anything you/they tried to counter the issue (and whether it worked or failed), the ranking of both yourself and your opponent and any suggestions you have to resolve the issue and why. It is important that issues be replicated and not be one off surprises based on a change made in the mod. We all fell to Booms once.

    If you are able to link to a replay (ID or otherwise) that would be ideal.

    Golden Rules Of The Mod
    1. Make every unit viable
    2. Adhere to WYSIWYG principles
    3. A Titans player should feel comfortable when playing this mod
    4. Remove noob traps
    5. Avoid pendulum balancing
    6. Balance should apply to all skill levels
    7. Respond to evidence, not theorycrafting
    8. Don't make changes which require modifying the translation files
    Translation

    Please help translate Very Boring and Conservative Balance to your local language.

    Changes

    See the changelog for changes over time. This list is a comparison between a unit's stats in classic, Titans, and in this mod. The full breakdown of change justifications is found here.

    Code:
    ## Global
    
    | Unit             | Attribute         | Classic  | Titans    | Boring     |
    | ---------------- | ----------------- | -------- | --------- | ---------- |
    | Fabbers          | Reclaim           | Surface  | Surface   | Surface    |
    |                  |                   | Seafloor | Seafloor  | Seafloor   |
    |                  |                   | Air      | Air       | Air        |
    |                  |                   |          |           | Underwater |
    | Mobile Weapons   | Target Priority   | Various  | Various   | Mobile     |
    | (anti-surface)   |                   |          |           | Orbital    |
    |                  |                   |          |           | Structure  |
    |                  |                   |          |           | Air        |
    |                  |                   |          |           | Wall       |
    | Static Weapons   | Target Priority   | Various  | Various   | Structure  |
    | (anti-surface)   |                   |          |           | Orbital    |
    |                  |                   |          |           | Mobile     |
    |                  |                   |          |           | Wall       |
    
    ## Air
    
    | Unit        | Attribute         | Classic | Titans | Boring |
    | ----------- | ----------------- | ------- | ------ | ------ |
    | ALL         | Wreckage          | 0       | 0      | 0.7    |
    | Angel       | Cost              | N/A     | 5500   | 2200   |
    | Hornet      | Range             | 180     | 180    | 200    |
    | Icarus      | Speed             | N/A     | 30     | 60     |
    | Wyrm        | Speed             | N/A     | 20     | 25     |
    
    ## Land
    
    | Unit        | Attribute              | Classic | Titans     | Boring  |
    | ----------- | ---------------------- | ------- | ---------- | ------- |
    | Atlas       | Health                 | N/A     | 40000      | 60000   |
    | Drifter     | Rate of Fire           | N/A     | 0.4        | 0.5     |
    |             | Yaw Rate               | N/A     | 60         | 180     |
    | Grenadier   | Firing Standard Dev    | 0       | 1.0        | 0       |
    | Locusts     | Cost                   | N/A     | 240        | 300     |
    | Storm       | Pitch Rate             | N/A     | 180        | 3600    |
    |             | Pitch Range            | N/A     | 0          | 89      |
    |             | Splash Damage          | N/A     | 30         | 60      |
    | Vanguard    | Cost                   | 1500    | 1500       | 1200    |
    
    ## Sea
    
    | Unit             | Attribute         | Classic | Titans | Boring |
    | ---------------- | ----------------- | ------- | ------ | ------ |
    | ALL              | Wreckage          | 0       | 0      | 0.7    |
    | Typhoon          | Ammo Demand       | N/A     | 15     | 30     |
    |                  | Range             | N/A     | 250    | 350    |
    | Typhoon (Squall) | Guard Distance    | N/A     | 200    | 300    |
    |                  | Health Regen      | N/A     | -3     | -2     |
    
    [​IMG]
    Last edited: November 16, 2018
    elodea, MrTBSC, cdrkf and 4 others like this.
  2. Quitch

    Quitch Post Master General

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    CHANGELOG

    Version 0.12.2 - 2018-11-16

    TRANSLATIONS
    • Added German (de) with thanks to Philipp
    GENERAL
    • Removed Ant changes as shifting meta suggests they are not required
    Version 0.12.1 - 2018-11-05

    TRANSLATIONS
    • Added Portuguese (BR) (pt-BR) with thanks to CmdrEdem and Diogo Almeida
    GENERAL
    • Removed Bluehawk changes from mod as they have been integrated into the base game
    • Removed Solar Array changes from mod as they've been (near enough) integrated into the base game
    • Removed Slammer changes from mod as they've been (near enough) integrated into the base game
    Version 0.12 - 2018-09-30

    TRANSLATIONS
    LAND
    • Grenadier
      • Restored Rate of Fire from 0.4 to 0.5
      • Restored Yaw Range from 90 to 180
      • Restored Yaw Rate from 120 to 45
      • Reduced Firing Standard Deviation from 1.0 to 0
    • Locusts
      • Increased cost from 240 to 300
    • Spark
      • Restored Health from 120 from 130
    • Slammer
      • Increased cost from 450 to 530
    Version 0.11 - 2018-09-20

    LAND
    • Ant
      • Added splash damage of 84
      • Added splash radius of 3
      • Added full dmg splash radius of 1
    Version 0.10 - 2018-08-10

    LAND
    • Leveler
      • Restored cost from 600 to 800
    • Vanguard
      • Restored radar range from 200 to 150
    Version 0.9 - 2018-03-03

    AI
    • Stripped out Queller changes
    LAND
    • GIL-E
      • Restored damage from 400 to 350
    Version 0.8 - 2018-02-19

    GLOBAL
    • Queller AI Uber fixes and improvements
    • Consistent targeting across weapon types (see readme for details)
    Version 0.7 - 2018-02-19

    GLOBAL
    • Modifies the Queller AI's Uber difficulty to accommodate the mod's changes
    LAND
    • Vanguard
      • Increased radar range from 150 to 200
    Version 0.6.1 - 2018-02-15

    GLOBAL
    • Allowed fabbers to reclaim underwater wreckage
    • This should fix Barnacles not obeying area reclaim commands
    Version 0.6 - 2018-02-12

    LAND
    • GIL-E
      • Revert to a projectile weapon
      • Increased damage from 350 to 400
    • Grenadier
      • Reduced rate of fire from 0.5 to 0.4
    • Spark
      • Restored range from 75 to 65
    SEA
    • Typhoon
      • Increased ammo demand from 20 to 30
      • Increased range from 250 to 350
      • Increased Squall health regen from -3 to -2
      • Removed ability to issue orders to Squalls
    Version 0.5 - 2018-02-10

    AIR

    • Icarus
      • Restore health from 175 to 40
    LAND
    • Grenadier
      • Decreased yaw rate from 120 to 45
      • Rate of fire restored from 0.4 to 0.5
    • Leveler
      • Reduced cost from 800 to 600
    • Spark
      • Reduced health from 130 to 120
    Version 0.4.3 - 2018-02-09
    • Correctly set Grenadier rate of fire to 0.4
    Version 0.4.2 - 2018-02-09
    • Ensure Icarus is treated as a combat unit by selection behaviours
    Version 0.4.1 - 2018-02-08
    • Correct mod name to remove reference to development
    • Correct lobby version number
    Version 0.4 - 2018-02-08

    GENERAL
    • Display name and version number in lobby to avoid surprising other players
    AIR
    • Units sometimes leave 70% of their worth as wreckage just like land units
    • Hornet
      • Restored cost to 1500
    • Icarus
      • Increased speed from 30 to 60
      • Marked as a gunship for the purposes of AI usage and AA targeting
    • Wyrm
      • Increased speed from 20 to 25
    LAND
    • Bluehawk
      • Increased range from 180 to 220
    • GIL-E
      • Restored damage to 350 from 400
      • Reduced range from 220 to 180
      • Changed weapon from a projectile to hitscan
    • Storm
      • Increased splash damage from 30 to 60
      • Allowed turret to pitch
    SEA
    • Units sometimes leave 70% of their worth as wreckage just like land units
    Version 0.3 - 2018-02-02

    GENERAL
    • Removed further unnecessary files following recent official balance changes
    • Rearrange readme for clarity
    • Correct error in listed stats for the Typhoon
    LAND
    • Grenadier
      • Reduced Yaw Rate from 360 to its original value of 120
    • GIL-E
      • Restored ability to shoot air units
    • Spark
      • Range increased from 65 to 75
    Version 0.2 - 2018-01-28
    • Removed changes to the Leveler following the official balance changes
    Version 0.1.4 - 2017-08-25
    • Revert combat fabber changes as the base game no longer allows them to reclaim the Commander
    Version 0.1.3 - 2017-04-13
    • Set Legion combat fabbers to have same restrictions as MLA ones
    Version 0.1.2 - 2017-04-12
    • Improved compatibility with More Pew Pew
    Version 0.1.1 - 2017-04-12
    • Now compatible with the Legion Expansion
    • Fixed Leveler incorrectly using classic velocity values and not those from Titans
    Version 0.1 - 2017/04/12

    AIR
    • Angel
      • Decreased cost from 5500 to 2200
    • Hornet
      • Increased range from 180 to 200
      • Decreased cost from 1500 to 1200
    • Icarus
      • Increased health from 40 to 175
    LAND
    • Drifter
      • Increased yaw rate from 60 to 180
      • Increased rate of fire from 0.4 to 0.5
    • Atlas
      • Increased health from 40,000 to 60,000
    • Mend
      • Restrict reclaim to wreckage and features
    • GIL-E
      • Increased range from 180 to 220
      • Increased damage from 350 to 400
      • Removed anti-air capabilities
    • Grenadier
      • Decreased rate of fire from 0.4 to 0.5
      • Increased yaw rate from 120 to 360
      • Increased yaw range from 90 to 180
    • Leveler
      • Decreased splash damage from 300 to 0
      • Decreased splash damage radius from 3 to 0
      • Decreased full splash damage radius from 1 to 0
    • Stitch
      • Restrict reclaim to wreckage and features
    • Vanguard
      • Decreased cost from 1500 to 1200
    SEA
    • Barnacle
      • Restrict reclaim to wreckage and features
    • Typhoon
      • Increased ammo demand from 15 to 20
        • Stored ammo drained after 15 shots (from 13)
        • Stored ammo drained after 7.5 seconds (from 10)
        • Ammo recharged after 15 seconds (from 20)
    ORBITAL
    • Solar Array
      • Decreased cost from 1800 to 1500
    Last edited: November 16, 2018
    cdrkf and stuart98 like this.
  3. Quitch

    Quitch Post Master General

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    Thoughts on 0.1:
    1. I went with a very conservative Leveler change. My thinking is that will make it more vulnerable to Booms, and the GIL-E change will open a new counter options.
    2. I didn't change the Kaiju because the GIL-E now outranges it.
    3. Vanguard still has half the DPS it used to have when it was a common unit, but I'm reluctant to revert to that because it makes scouting out drops essential which is not lower league friendly. I'd rather buff the health if needs be.
    4. Grenadier is effectively back in its classic form, except with the accuracy deviation that was added in Titans which I'm hoping will mean that mass Grens scatter shots too much to be as powerful as they are in classic.
    5. GIL-E is the Titans cost (cheaper) with the classic weapon (stronger), but it can't shoot through terrain. I'm looking to leverage it as a new counter to the Leveler and Kaiju.
    6. Drifter has the Ant turret and fire rate, but with its own damage. It still loses out in a direct confrontation (identical number of shots required to kill), but given its speed and stronger weapon it may be a more tempting choice now.
    7. Typhoon is somewhere between Titans launch and its current form. I'm hoping this will allow it to prove useful without abusable as it used to be.
    8. Not sure whether naval needs adjusting to deal with Barracuda spam, and if so what to change.
    Last edited: April 13, 2017
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  4. Quitch

    Quitch Post Master General

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    Version 0.1.1 - 2017-04-12
    • Now compatible with the Legion Expansion
    • Fixed Leveler incorrectly using classic velocity values and not those from Titans
    stuart98 and gmase like this.
  5. Quitch

    Quitch Post Master General

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    Version 0.1.2 - 2017-04-12
    • Improved compatibility with More Pew Pew
    cdrkf likes this.
  6. gmase

    gmase Well-Known Member

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    I understood the decision to not change MLA in Legion but damn it's about time to fix those units. Also sparks may need some love too.
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  7. stuart98

    stuart98 Post Master General

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    +1 to spark fixes.

    Number one change is upgrading their range so that you can't beat them by micro'ing doxen. They're only good against one unit to begin with and when micro renders that counter... not a counter the result is that Spark is somewhat useless.
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  8. river39

    river39 Active Member

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    you need to watch out that with this fix you don't make the dox useless.

    if you are gone remove com reclaim from mla you should also remove it from legion to keep the balance. Like i did with my mod ...
  9. Quitch

    Quitch Post Master General

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    Fair point, and something I overlooked in 0.1.1. I'll do that.
  10. Quitch

    Quitch Post Master General

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    Version 0.1.3 - 2017-04-13
    • Set Legion combat fabbers to have same restrictions as MLA ones
  11. MrTBSC

    MrTBSC Post Master General

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    in quitch we trust ! .. gonna test as soon as i manage fixing my darn rig crashing on every game .. :/
  12. fluffiest

    fluffiest New Member

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    Just based on my knowledge of real-world naval warfare, I feel that Barracudas should be good at picking off high-value targets like Leviathans and Typhoons, and should be countered by bombers and destroyers (Orcas). Orcas should also be the most efficient choice for taking down swarms of lighter units, because that's what destroyers do (the original term was "motor torpedo boat destroyer", designed as a response to the threat of large swarms of ultra-light boats equipped with devastating torpedoes). Orcas, meanwhile, should get wrecked by those big expensive T2 ships. This has the advantage of setting up a nice rock-paper-scissors with orcas>barracudas>levi/typhoon>orcas. I also like the idea of giving the barracuda radar stealth (since detecting a submarine on surface radar is asinine), but that's rapidly leaving the "boring and conservative" field.

    Note it's based on a WW2-ish model; in a modern navy, destroyers pack long range guided missiles while frigates do the anti-submarine and anti-air escorting. Frankly, the classes "destroyer" and "frigate" have gone through so many changes over the centuries that the words are meaningless without specifying a time period.

    ...since I don't actually own PA (I suck at RTS games and I find them stressful; I just like watching the replays. Marshall is my bae), take this for what it is: Some waffling from an afficionado of military history and game design.
    Last edited: May 2, 2017
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  13. NikolaMX

    NikolaMX Member

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    My own experience with the mod so far:
    Sparks are fine in the way they are in titans, maybe add a slight range increase (still kiteable early game) and decrease their energy consumption to make them viable. If you watch flubbs replays you will see their potential to wreck havoc against practically everything (tanks included)
    Grenadiers are decent.
    Gill E change is decent, except for the lack of AA. IT is the only land counter to hornets and should remain that way. Also it can single out kestrels, which gives T2 bots some odds against T2 air.
    Storm needs to be better against kestrels. I stronfly suggest N30Ns way of handling that with increasing splash intensity and radius just a bit so that the storm can out range kestrels. Otherwise veichles require huge masses of spinners all over the place.
    Icarus is decent.
    Atlas is Decent.
    A suggestion to set some variability to the drifter and assign it a special role would be to make it anti tank: have slower turret turn rate than the ant bit just enough damage/hp to beat the ant in 1v1 thus will create some good balance for grenadiers and dox. With the drifter beIng fast enough to chase and kill grenadiers and strong enough to take out ants, dox will be a fun counter to the slow RoF
    Angel is decent
    Vanguard might need a higher RoF for lower damage tradeoff to make it better against spread out units and locusts (N30Ns mod has the right idea)
    The leveler change is decent but you can leave just a bit of splash to stimulate flanking
    The typhoon should be able to kill submarines. Otherwise it is a bit better, may need just a bit of splash to keep air away.
    The submarine issue:
    My perfect solution would be orcas beating subs in 2 hits, for better metal tradeoff, have lower RoF and higher dmg so that piranha's, which are pretty useless atm, can have some impact.
    Spraking of the piranha, it needs a dps buff
    The wyrm could also use a speed buff, else it is very situational
    Quitch likes this.
  14. Quitch

    Quitch Post Master General

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    Per the OP I'm gonna need supporting evidence such as replays which support these points.
    stuart98 likes this.
  15. Quitch

    Quitch Post Master General

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    Version 0.1.4 - 2017-08-25
    • Revert combat fabber changes as the base game no longer allows them to reclaim the Commander
  16. elodea

    elodea Post Master General

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    wow i didnt know this existed. cool beans. Do people use this?
  17. MrTBSC

    MrTBSC Post Master General

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    i do though not playing often recently
  18. Quitch

    Quitch Post Master General

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    Version 0.2 - 2018-01-28
    • Removed changes to the Leveler following the official balance changes
  19. Quitch

    Quitch Post Master General

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    Version 0.3 - 2018-02-02

    GENERAL
    • Removed further unnecessary files following recent official balance changes
    • Rearrange readme for clarity
    • Correct error in listed stats for the Typhoon
    LAND
    • Grenadier
      • Reduced Yaw Rate from 360 to its original value of 120
    • GIL-E
      • Restored ability to shoot air units
    • Spark
      • Range increased from 65 to 75
  20. Quitch

    Quitch Post Master General

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    I am open to the possibility that the Spark may need a speed adjustment to compensate for the range tweak. Will see how it goes.

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