Satellite weapons, Anti Satellite weapons and Counter-Anti S

What are you guys/gals thoughts on these three things:

Satellite weapons
Anti Satellite weapons
Counter-Anti Satellite weapons

My thoughts are that Satellite weapons will most likely be of shells, kinetic rods, tac missiles/rockets and plasma streams (Or some kinda energy weapon). Giving a variety of accuracy vs damage type weapons.

Anti Satellite weapons may consist of Tac missiles, anti nukes, nukes and specialized plasma streams (Or some kinda energy weapon) as coming from SupCom FA I have always felt the need to be able to at least nuke enemy satellites.

And from the evolution of technology, satellites will inevitably employ countermeasures like Chaff/Flak, EM countermeasures, maneuvering thrusters and possibly stealth and cloaking fields.

In the end, possibly leaving satellites as stealth weapons for quick attacks on defended targets that could potentially take them down very quickly, and as sniper spy satellites designed to monitor the borders of defended territory's.

But what do you guys think? and thanks for your time.

Re: Satellite weapons, Anti Satellite weapons and Counter-An

I think in general there are still too man unknowns regarding the orbital layer to say much at this point, no to mention how it would interract with other mechanics like dropships and the like.

But I don't like the idea of a counter-counter unit, cause then you end up with all these redundant layers of counters.

Mike

Re: Satellite weapons, Anti Satellite weapons and Counter-An

Well I mean more like a counter system on normal satellites to increase survivability.

And even with unknowns what bit of idle speculation could hurt?

Possibly even help flesh out some concepts or ideas.

Re: Satellite weapons, Anti Satellite weapons and Counter-An

I'd like to see satellites countered by ground based lasers, among other things.

Re: Satellite weapons, Anti Satellite weapons and Counter-An

I agree that there are too many unknowns ATT to delve too deeply into the orbital layer -- BUT, it can't hurt to speculate about satellites and the like, since that's what the General Discussion forum is for.

I assume that there will be some satellites in PA. A simple "Spy" satellite seems like a no-brainer, which should grant you LoS and radar coverage over large part of a planet.

Either an upgrade to the basic spy satellite, or a different "space detector" satellite, should allow the player to detect incoming enemy units, such as orbital drops from Unit Cannons, Interplanetary Transport ships, interplanetary ballistic missiles, and asteroid KEWs.

I don't think there should be "mid-tier" bombardment satellites, regardless if they fire artillery shells or missiles, because (supposedly) there won't be shields in PA, so no defence against artillery, and a tactical missile launched from a satellite shouldn't be any different than a surface launch TM, meaning that it can be countered by a TMD -- so what's the point?

Weaponized satellites should be "super weapons", such as in nuke launchers, Ion Cannons, and KEWs. And obviously there should be counters for weaponized satellites, such as nuke interceptors and anti-satellite weapons (probably missiles).

If there are anti-satellite weapons, there would have to be defensive satellites as well, otherwise satellites could be swatted out of the sky, so they'd be a waste of time and resources.

There should definitely be an option to launch satellites into orbit of other planets, to scout them before deploying units to them. That will allow the player to learn if the planet is occupied by an opponent, or is unclaimed; as well as determine what type of planet it is, and if it's worth expanding there.

Presumably satellites will be launched from the Rocket Gantry, which will ensure that it's used for more than just launching the Commander and Engineers into space.


Speculating more about the Orbital Layer, I hope that it will basically be just like a planet's surface, except that all units "hover" in orbit. If you launch your Commander and/or Engineers into orbit, they'll hover around. But you probably can't just launch mechs, tanks, or aircraft into orbit -- specialized orbital combat units would probably be required.

The Kickstarter stretch goal relating to "Enhanced Orbital Units" refers to "space platforms". Whether they are pre-existing space relics, or they are platforms that a player can build in orbit, I don't know. I'd prefer the latter -- or both. I'm hoping that space platforms basically allow the player to build bases in orbit, with most of the same land-based units and buildings. That seems like the most elegant solution, because PA wouldn't need too many special orbital units or buildings for the orbital layer. Units and defensive towers can be used to defend the orbital space platforms, and attack enemy orbital platforms. A nuke launcher built in orbit would function exactly the same as a nuke launcher built on the surface, and it could be countered by a surface-based nuke interceptor. A Unit Cannon or heavy artillery super-weapon could fire down on a planet from orbit, but the same surface-based weapons can't fire into orbit. KEW Interceptor Missile launchers (as seen from the KS trailer) could also be built on the orbital layer, which enable Asteroid KEWs to be detected and intercepted earlier, hopefully protecting the player's main base on the planet's surface.

The orbital layer probably should also have defensive weapons specifically for space units -- like "Anti-Spacecraft" missiles and lasers -- that can intercept Interplanetary Transport ships and units orbital dropped by Unit Cannons. Therefore, the orbital layer would be the first line of defence against interplanetary invasions.

Re: Satellite weapons, Anti Satellite weapons and Counter-An

The one thing I really want out of the orbital layer is for it to feel different than every other layer in the game.

So for example Supreme Commander did a really great job of this. The airplanes all swooped around moving in big arcs, they'd do bombing and strafing runs. The battleships felt like actual naval weapons platforms that sailed around the map. But in a lot of other RTS games (especially Star Craft) everything feels too similar. All their aircraft just felt like tanks that happened to be floating in the air.

So for the orbital layer I'd like the game play to feel like it's own unique layer. Maybe satellites could have massive ranges because they are working in micro gravity with no air for resistance. And they could drift about at incredibly high speeds but would take a long time to change directions or slow down.

Also I'd imagine orbital units would fall into one of three categories: "things that gather intel", "things that shoot at the ground", and "Things that shoot at other satellites".

Re: Satellite weapons, Anti Satellite weapons and Counter-An

So here is a thread from page 3 about satellites. I knew one already existed because I made it and probably there were others before mine.

I think the concept of satellites is an interesting one. I think it is reasonable to assume that they will be in the game already but it's hard to know just how they will be implemented and to what extent.

Personally I would love to see some really creative ideas for satellites. The community here seems to have an ability to make some ridiculous suggestions and for me, that is what these games have been about: taking off-the-wall ideas and making them work in a game.

I'd really like to see some clever ideas for satellites that make them more than just 'orbital radars'.

Re: Satellite weapons, Anti Satellite weapons and Counter-An

It would be awesome to just go crazy with satellite ideas, but the problem is that presumably the satellites can't be too big and heavy, otherwise they can't be launched by the Rocket Gantry. I expect that the Commander is probably the limit of the size and mass of any satellite launched by the standard rocket. Anything bigger or heavier would probably have to be launched in pieces and assembled in orbit.

One crazy satellite idea is a "Super Solar Collector" satellite, which collects a tremendous amount of Energy from the sun. (Admittedly, a surface-based fusion power plant would probably generate more energy a lot cheaper and easier, but who knows?) Regardless, a possible alternate use for the super solar collector satellite would be the clichéd orbital "Solar Death Ray". (Maybe not original, but always fun!)

Another crazy idea is a satellite that is as an orbital gantry for constructing an Experimental-type mega-bot. The player launches the gantry into space, and "secretly" builds the mega-bot in orbit. Once it's completed, the player orders it to make planet-fall, and it crashes to the planet's surface (or in the ocean), similar to the Transformers' arrival in the Michael Bay movies. Perhaps its crash zone could be in the enemy base, destroying it like a KEW, then the mega-bot unfurls, and mops up.

However, supposedly there aren't going to be Experimetals in PA, unfortunately.

Also, the mega-bot gantry satellite could simply be an orbital factory buildable on a space platform on the orbital layer.

Re: Satellite weapons, Anti Satellite weapons and Counter-An

A dropship experimental?

Re: Satellite weapons, Anti Satellite weapons and Counter-An

How about a satellite that projects an illusion of a base onto the surface of a planet? The art of deception.

Re: Satellite weapons, Anti Satellite weapons and Counter-An

Well you could always go the "tech tree through building order" route.

A tech 2 engineer can build the orbital launch building -> the orbital launch building can build and launch a tech 1 orbital engineer (engineer satellite, or whatever we want to call it) -> The tech 1 orbital engineer can build a tech 1 orbital factory -> a tech 1 orbital factory can build tech 1 satellites and tech 2 orbital engineers -> a tech 2 orbital engineer can build a tech 2 orbital factory, and so on.

Re: Satellite weapons, Anti Satellite weapons and Counter-An

What if the satellites moved in (slightly) realistic low orbits? They would constantly zip around their planet and only be in range of any given point every few minutes. The upside is that they would be in range of most of the planet's surface in that time. This would make the orbital layer "feel" completely different and give them a different strategic use than planes.
I feel that this would be a better system than something like the Forged Alliance satellite, which moved excruciatingly slowly and only did light damage to compensate for being difficult to kill and able to concentrate on one unit.

Re: Satellite weapons, Anti Satellite weapons and Counter-An

What about a satellite that can reclaim wreckage on the planets surface?

Or make enemy units go haywire, moving in all directions and firing erratically?

Or expands like an umbrella to block sunlight, weakening opponents solar farms--or deployed over your own base defends against line-of-sight from scouting interplanetary telescopes?

Or uses a gravity beam to pull small units into space, effectively destroying them as they float into the depths of space?

Re: Satellite weapons, Anti Satellite weapons and Counter-An

I think a "insert a pimp my ride style meme about yo dawg I herd u lyke couterz here" is unnecesary.

As far as using moons as orbiting weapons, launching moons into orbit TO use as orbiting weapons, and having the same cannons on planets able to return fire to moons, epic combats would ensue.

Besides that, there should only be one giant-scale counter-counter. That is the weapon that will destroy incoming enemy-launched apocolyptic meteorites. And this should require several to successfully stop one. And thus, it should be possible to send up a several satellites, and send them all as meteorites at once, and even if the enemy can stop a few with spammed defences, they cant prevent the asteroid impact.