[Poll] A more diverse, TA inspired Energy System (Wind-Tidal-Solar-Geothermal-Nuclear).

Edit: I've amended a few things in this proposition in the light of productive discussion with Brian (including T1 Nuclear).

Building on this poll which showed the forum-going community thought there was potential in having a diverse Total Annihilation inspired energy system, I was thinking lately about how this could look in-game.

I love the way Planetary Annihilation plays and looks. This hypothesizing is hoping to ignite discussion over how the Energy System could be made cooler from the ground up without screwing with the numbers or balance of the game too much, and without cloning Supreme Commander's system.

Anyway, here's a proposal of how this might look (feel free to pick holes, constructively (if such a thing is possible)):


Tier 1:

• Nuclear T1
  • +800 Energy
  • Volatile.
  • Basically our T1 Energy Generators only more explosive.
    • A 300 increase to their output to entice people to risk it, and offset people placing them more widely.
  • Active 24/7 in any environment.

• Wind & Tidal Power
  • +500 Energy
    • These complement our T1 Energy Generators.
  • Not available on planets without Air/Water.
    • This means we are more inclined to smash Moons/Asteroids and fight over resource-rich planets.
  • Perhaps room for variation of -/+100 (- ? - Discuss) based on a planet's Wind-Speed and number of Moons in orbit (increasing Tidal pull).

• Solar (Land)
  • +1,200 Energy
  • Relatively cheap, high-yield for T1.
  • Not active at night (hence the cheap/high yield advantage).
  • Bunkers down if attacked, becoming inactive but more durable.

• Geothermal T1
  • +3,000 Energy
  • Located on resource spots, like Metal.
    • Everybody gets one near or in their spawn.
    • Also spread sparsely over the planet.
  • A high yield energy spot for early-game - worth fighting over for a big boom if you want to churn out an army or push for Tier 2.

Tier 2:

• Nuclear T2
  • +8,000 Energy
    • Taking the place of our T2 Generators now - roughly the same price but higher output because...
  • They are volatile and hence would need to be more widely/carefully spaced.
    • When one explodes its damage to the surrounding area is equal to 20% (- ? - Discuss) of its full health.
      • Therefore chain reactions are possible if several reactors are simultaneously destroyed in close proximity, or seriously damaged as a group and one explodes.
  • Active 24/7 in any environment.

• Solar (Orbital)
  • +4,000 as now.
  • Not active at night, as with Solar Land.

• Geothermal T2
  • +10,000 Energy?
  • Built over T1 Geothermal just like T2 Metal Pumps to keep these points worth fighting over mid-late game.
  • Slightly more frequent on Lava Planets ( - ? - Discuss).

• Gas Giant MEGA NOO-NOO
  • >10,000 Energy. (50,000?)
  • A high-value Orbital Structure/Unit with huge power output.
  • This thing would have more of a point if Energy were harder to acquire due to Biome/Mex Placement/Day-Night/Volatility restrictions.

This is all up for discussion and change The couple of things with '- ? -' are things I'd be worried about most balance wise.


Stay being awesome Uber!
eroticburrito.

I don't think the economy needs more complexity.

The game should focus more on combat, and less on economy.

Was Total Annihilation an eco-sim?

We fight over metal (sort of). Why is energy endlessly abundant?

I dislike the idea of a land solar plant.
Geothermal would be pretty cool.
Nuclear is actually pretty interesting, I'd like to see that happen.

Just because another game had it, doesn't mean all game should have it.

TA also had the benefit of non-randomized maps. We already have issues with spawn equality and that will only be magnified if you get little metal and little energy spots and your opponent gets lots of metal and lots of energy spots.

I predict no one will use solar arrays as they'd be pretty pointless since they would only generate energy half of the time.

Why is energy endlessly abundant? Because this game is supposed to focus more on combat and less on... non-combat. This is PA, not Sim City.

That game is this game's spiritual predecessor. I'm not arguing that 2048 should have Solar Arrays.

Mex placement are still in development, like much of the game. Looking at a prototype for a car and complaining about the fuel efficiency doesn't mean we should stick with a horse-drawn carriage.
Total Annihilation's energy diversification suits Planetary Annihilation's spherical maps and diverse biomes more than it did SupCom's grids and tiny biomes.

This system makes energy more difficult to obtain, which actually encourages combat as we fight over Geothermal spots and resource-rich planets with Tides and Wind and Gas Giants as the ultimate near-infinite, risk-free power source.

I like explosions and combat. That's what I'm here for! This system doesn't add a load of micro to energy management, it tries to roughly convert what we've already got number-wise and make it worth fighting over or blowing up.

Of course not, doesn't mean we can't expand on ideas, as for energy, basically we are getting it from a magic box, it would be interesting to add more to it.
Water as an option as an energy source would be interesting for instance

That still doesn't mean because it had it PA should have it.

Those analogies do not match up at all.

And just because metal placement is in development, doesn't mean it'll ever be perfect. By the very nature of it being random, there will be spawn balance issues no matter what. Energy stuff will only make it worse.

Well I don't see why it shouldn't. As I've said, I believe this would encourage combat and create depth.
If it didn't turn TA into an eco-sim, what makes you so sure it would turn PA into an eco-sim?

Besides which, these aren't straight port suggestions. I've attempted to tailor them to PA's Energy system, and discarded things like Metal-Makers which wouldn't add depth or encourage more combat.

Metal is the car, Energy is the carriage Sorry for that one.

Well I said everybody gets one Geothermal Spot in their spawn. As for the rest of the planet... Equidistant spots, in a perfect world. But if we wanted perfect and not random, why would we play on procedural maps anyway? A little bit of chaos is a good thing.
Keeps gameplay fresh.

The idea is to abstract the economy into it's most base form.

The flavour of power really is up to the modellers to decide, even with the inconsistencys of night time solar arrays (I dunno, it has a battery to charge for the night time to produce flat power?).

Bah, Brian. Bah.
If you're fighting over a Geothermal spot, is that an eco-focused game, or a combat-focused game?

The analogy was supposed to indicate that Metal had more impact upon gameplay than Energy does (through encouraging combat), and that Energy could be better in that respect, as in others.
This would be done through making Energy more scarce and yet diverse, encouraging us to push out our base and secure more Geothermal Spots, or more space for our Volatile Nuclear energy, or a Gas Giant for unlimited energy since everything else has one downside or another.

I am not arguing for unfair spawns and poor mex placement and you know I'm not.

Honestly, everything needs more variety right now. Including economy, units, and strategies. I think a more diverse economy would more useful with huge games, ones that cover multiple solar systems (if that is ever implemented). I think the community should be more focused on units rather than a diverse economy right now.

I know you're not arguing for it.

But that would be the byproduct of such an addition.

Also, your wind/tidal power plant doesn't fit with the WYSIWYG principle.

It might be. That's dependent on how well the spot placement turns out.

Power plants. Wind and Tidal are separate.
They don't fit the principle because we can't see the wind/tides? Eh. Doesn't stop us making electricity from them in real life. Still more WYSIWYG than Fusion-Boxes.

No.

You suggested having the power planets produce different amounts of energy based on how much wind the planet has or based on how many moons the planet has. That means the power plants produce a different amount of energy and is not WYSIWYG.

Fusion-Boxes are extremely WYSIWYG because one fusion-box produces X amount of energy. Always.

You can't see the moons? You can't see the clouds moving faster?
That was just a suggestion anyway.

Fusion boxes do not interact with the physical world the game presents. They could be anything from a giant spinning top to a hamster on a trampoline and it wouldn't matter. If we're going to have nuclear, it should go nuclear.

Just because there are nuclear components inside a building, doesn't mean it will detonate like a nuclear bomb. Despite popular opinion, nuclear power is actually very stable, clean, and efficient.

And even then, it probably isn't nuclear. It's probably fusion, which is more efficient, stable, and clean. We're actually not that far off from fusion power, and once we do achieve that, electricity will be practically free.

That being said, I vote that these energy boxes be powered by hamsters jumping up and down on trampolines.

Can an Uber employee chime in and confirm this for us?

You're preaching to the choir.
It's a game with robots blowing stuff up. If it's nuclear, it better be exploding.

Exploding nuclear trampoline hamsters?

Edit: My thousandth comment was about exploding nuclear trampoline hamsters. Acceptable.

Because we spit out tokomaks by the dozen.

I don't see the point. It just clogs up the build menu.

FUSION FUSION FUSION FUSION.

We've had fission for ages silly.