patching. Why Mikey Should

Discussion in 'PA: TITANS: General Discussion' started by nosebreaker, August 30, 2017.

  1. nosebreaker

    nosebreaker Post Master General

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    Greetings to all.
    Currently we Have a version of Pa with all the nuances of the currant build.
    Some of which we like Some of which we dont.
    Uber has pretty much left Mikey as our lord and Commander........
    Agree or not agree This guy has done a lot . Those more in the know could write a book.
    What The Nosebreaker does know is Mikey is a good guy.
    With out further input from Uber this is as far as Pa Titans goes.
    Considering Mikey has had a lot of time to Do as he chooses and has chose to Pretty much leave currant build as is.

    Should not we as a group, Not see were Mikey could take us patching currant build.
    The Nosebreaker is sure some patching would cause issue with people but then that itself would bring to life forums with constructive criticism.
    The Nosebreaker Would love to hear what Mikey and what people would like to change.

    What an opportunity has presented itself. How often does a company allow an outsider such power to change their ip.

    This in itself could set a shinning example to other game communities and other companies how mature individuals could bring further life to a aged game.
    Or the opposite could be true............................

    We have an opportunity why are we not using it.
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  2. eyhey34

    eyhey34 Member

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  3. icycalm

    icycalm Post Master General

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    The tough problem, since mikey probably isn't a top player (though he may be; I don't know enough about the scene to determine this), is deciding which top players to listen to when choosing to make changes.

    What I have decided for the mod of Legion I and my friends are working on is to have the clan leaders who participate in events that will be using this mod vote between themselves on the changes. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what anyone thinks beyond the people who are actually using the mod: as long as they are satisfied, mission accomplished. mikey's problem is that everyone is using his version, so he has a much larger audience to please.

    Realistically though, low-ranked players can't even tell most of the balance differences, and usually have no idea when changes are even made, so they are not a problem and never will be. So I think he too can "crowdsource" the changes by having top players vote on them. He won't be able to please everyone, but as long as a system is found to get many of them to vote, he should be able to please most of them, in the democratic manner.

    For me, things are easier because all I have to do is please the clan leaders, because they are the ones who are bringing their clans into our events, so I have far fewer people to please; and then they can discuss changes with their players and try to please most of them, without me having to worry about it.

    And of course with mikey there is the question of how much freedom to make changes Uber has given him, which again is not an issue in my case because of modding.

    I wish good luck to him. It's not an easy spot to be in.
    Last edited: August 30, 2017
  4. emarkus

    emarkus Active Member

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    Who is Mikey? I only see the user wyao announcing updates. Can someone explain a bit?
  5. icycalm

    icycalm Post Master General

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    As for who should be given a vote... I say all Uber and Platinum players. They are few enough to allow for discussion to be possible between them, but not so few that a wide range of opinions are not heard. And it will benefit the matchmaking because people will be incentivized to increase their ranking in order to get a vote and make their opinions count in the changes that are actually made.

    If you want to give votes to Gold too, give 1 vote to them and 2 votes to Uber and Platinum players (or 2 to Platinum and 3 to Uber, or something along those lines).

    Players make proposals, and then everyone with a vote who cares enough to vote can vote on them. mikey can make a cool little section on palobby to make this automatic. Hell, he can make a mod for it that sits on the main menu. He could even add it to the base game, with Uber's blessing, but I think it's better not to invite randoms who don't care about balance anyway to air their opinions on these matters, and confining the voting system to a mod will help accomplish this.
  6. icycalm

    icycalm Post Master General

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    PA was the first RTS to be funded by crowdsourcing, so why not also be the first to crowdsource its balance? As long as it is done carefully (i.e. by giving votes only to the right people), I believe it can be a big success, and point towards a new way of doing things in the future.

    And the balance will evolve constantly with the player-base. Mistakes will doubtlessly be made, but as long as the process continues, the players will spot them and will vote to fix them, and the balance will keep evolving at pace with the top players' tastes and changing opinions.

    On top of the fact that, like Nosebreaker said, it should bring a huge influx of traffic to the forum, which will naturally spill over into forums outside the one dedicated to balance, and help revitalize all aspects of the game.
    Last edited: August 30, 2017
  7. cdrkf

    cdrkf Post Master General

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    We are referring to @mikeyh

    Whilst @wyao is usually the Uber employee who *publishes* new builds- Mikey has actually done quite a few changes to code in the background (check the patch notes, you'll notice Mikey mentioned on multiple lines).

    Mikey from memory has done a lot in relation to mod support, as well as some tweaks to enhance what modders can do with the game (certain aspects of Legion were only possible because of this). He is also the guy who runs (and pays for) the in game chat service, the mod server and several other utilities that really help improve the quality of life of PA.

    What I'm not sure of though is if Mikey would be permitted to make balance changes, which is what @nosebreaker would like to see? Having read through the various patch notes it does appear Mikey is limited to a few specific areas of the game- now that might simply be that is what interests him, however I wouldn't be surprised if there is an agreement with Uber on what he is and isn't allowed to modify.

    I'm not against the idea of Mikey doing a balance pass- I think we might need to get the higher ups at Uber on board as well though (and of course we are assuming Mikey has any interest in taking that on- I think balance passes are about the single most thankless jobs a developer could take on given the how passionate and polarized the community tends to be on such things).
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  8. eyhey34

    eyhey34 Member

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  9. wpmarshall

    wpmarshall Planetary Moderator

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  10. cdrkf

    cdrkf Post Master General

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  11. nosebreaker

    nosebreaker Post Master General

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    Looks like he's onto it. They look more like actual supporting patches more so than game play patches.
    The Nosebreaker is suggesting gameplay patching.
    Wow yes scared **** but so much potential for further greatness.
    Über have left mikes with control.
    The nosebreaker wants things every one wants different things. Currently no one gets anything.
    The nosebreaker would rather be pissed about a change than see no change because there will always be the further possibility for more change.
    It would be terrible to think this is the last meta.

    Mikes doesn't appear rash impertuious or hAsty in implementing change/tweaks.
    The Nosebreaker trusts mikes
    Uber trusts mikey

    What more you looking for.......................
  12. lulamae

    lulamae Well-Known Member

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  13. xankar

    xankar Post Master General

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    When the only balance changes we get is making one unit more viable than another or getting rid of options because people didn't like having options, at what point do we actually balance the game? We've just been jumping from meta to meta as the game is "balanced" to people's complaints and whining since the start of early access, all the while getting rid of game elements and options because people whined and complained (comm transport, comm reclaim, gas giant bombing, orbital reclaim, etc...).

    At this point, what exactly do you want that you can't already get in the dozen or so desperate attempts known as balance mods? It's going to take a lot more than giving an ant another ten more points of health "to see how players will react to this super experimental change and see what players will do when given this super interesting and unique game changing element" to keep the game interesting or balanced. After four years of it, we're hardly starved for more of the number mashing that's been called "balance", we're starved for actual game variety.
    Last edited: August 31, 2017
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  14. gmase

    gmase Well-Known Member

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    Comm reclaim was very ugly it was really nice to have it removed.
    We can't rely on balance mods cause it's quite hard for then to take over but maybe a good chunk of the experienced players could agree on some changes and implement them on a mod called something like "beta balance" that mikeyh would include into the native game after a few weeks of testing and tuning the mod.
    There are already good balance mods that could be the starting point for this "beta balance". Am I being too optimistic about reaching an agreement like that?
  15. stuart98

    stuart98 Post Master General

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    and I've been addressing this in various ways for three years but don't mind me...
  16. mwreynolds

    mwreynolds Well-Known Member

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    If some how legion could be used for ranked games., that should help with variety.
  17. Corgiarmy

    Corgiarmy Active Member

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    Legion should have its own ladder. Legion and mla are not on equal on terms balance-wise for combined 1v1 gameplay.

    It would be interesting to see who is the best legion player in pa.
  18. icycalm

    icycalm Post Master General

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    Protoss should have its own ladder too. And the Zerg. Or are those factions equal?

    http://shoryuken.com/2013/09/03/dom...o-a-diss-some-preliminary-remarks-on-balance/

  19. Corgiarmy

    Corgiarmy Active Member

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    Those are much more balanced.
  20. mwreynolds

    mwreynolds Well-Known Member

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    Because they are in the same ladder.
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  21. icycalm

    icycalm Post Master General

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    The whole point of factions is to be pitted against each other.
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