My thoughts on Planetary Annihilation (alpha)

Before I share my thoughts on Planetary Annihilation (PA), I'd like to share a little about myself so that you all have some perspective about where I'm coming from with this post. I'm a finance professional in my 40s. My all-time favorite RTS game will always be Total Annihilation (TA), followed by Supreme Commander: Forged Alliance (SCFA) in a close second.

Why did I love TA so much? Because it offered the unique combination of incredible graphics, special effects (explosions, parts flying off damaged vehicles/structure, etc.), and memorable gameplay moments.

I'll always remember one time where I had built up a huge power farm of fusion generators surrounded by dragon teeth and static defenses (missile towers, laser towers). My brother launched an assault that occupied my attention as well as that of my defenses. After annihilating my brother's assault force, I was perplexed as to why I was still getting the "base under attack" siren warning. And then I saw it. My brother had maneuvered a single AK47 kbot through my defensive perimeter and was blasting away at one of my many fusion generators. I quickly sent my defensive forces to kill the attacker but they were having trouble finding their way through my own defense perimeter. I had to micro my force into place so that they could kill my brother's kbot. It was a race against time as I saw my fusion's hit points dwindle to almost nothing as did that of the attacking AK47.

And then suddenly, just as I destroyed the infiltrating kbot and shouted in joy, my fusion exploded in a white light. My elation quickly turned into horror as I saw the resulting daisy-chain explosion as one destroyed fusion generator set off 2 more exploding fusion generators and so on. My computer screen turned into one white graphic display. As the whiteness faded, I saw the game screen still shake violently as parts of fusion generators and what was left of my base disperse all across the land. Needless to say, I lost that war....

As great an operational theater scale offered by Supreme Commander: Forged Alliance was, I felt that it lost the intimacy and closeness of battles that TA offered. Sometimes, SCFA required you to command units from the icon-level of detail. As strategic as it was, doing so left the gameplay feeling a little cold and impersonal. I never quite recreated the same type of TA battle in SCFA that I so thoroughly enjoyed while playing TA.

Now, I feel that Planetary Annihilation is going in the direction of offering even more cold and impersonal battles by expanding the scope and nature of combat to include planetary combat. While acknowledging that PA is in alpha state, it's still hard to believe the scale of units in regards to the planet. You have naval ships that would span hundreds of miles if drawn literally to scale. Structures are also impossibly tall if taken literally to scale. And unlike the detailed, realistic units of TA and SCFA, PA alpha's units look to be more of the cartoonish Borderlands and Team Fortress 2 persuasion.

In closing, I really do wish that the spiritual successor to TA went the opposite direction in scale and focused on close up tactical battles of its predecessor, TA. I know there's no going back in life, but were I a millionaire, that's exactly what I would do, at least with regards to my RTS gaming experiences and game development.

Wait, so you don't like PA!!!!!!!!!!!!??????????!?!?!?! :shock: :evil: :cry: :x :shock:

A few things are backwards here, first, units aren't huge in comparison to the planets, rather the planets are tiny compared to the units, if you check out the PA Facebook page and look for the Whitebox Pictures, you can see the scale they're operating on. Frankly it is to be expected, no one wants to wait around for hours(days maybe) for an army to cross a continent on a "true-scale" planet, of course planets still come in a variety of sizes, and so will planets in PA, the Current Alpha planet is actually what Uber labels as a pretty small one, good for 1v1s but kinda cramped for 4 players, over time as the Alpha and Beta progresses we'll see more planets types and sizes pop up.

Secondly I think you're mislabeling the style Uber has chosen for PA, it is not a Cartoony Style, more of a Simplistic/stylized one. Compared to something Like TF2 the differences are revealing, for example TF2 is characterized by its 'deformed' characters, they are such not so much for stylistic reasons, but actual gameplay ones and terms of easy readability, you'd never mistake a Pyro for a Heavy because of it. Compared to PA, the Units aren't really deformed at all, they use easily recognizable proportions that are such because they very well represent what many people already feel a tank should look like. When taking color choices into consideration, TF2 Might have brighter colors on Characters(primarily the Red and Blue for obvious Gameplay Reasons) meanwhile the surrounding environment is often using a more washed-out color palette, which is better for the Characters to stand out. PA has a brighter, or at least more balanced, color palette for the environments, so the Unit colors have to be bright as well, the 2 tone system helps with this and also leaves avenues for Team Coloring when dealing with larger teams.

In Terms on the Models themselves, you might be surprised to learn that they aren't all that much less detailed when compared to SupCom;



Out of the 2, the PA model actually has more Triangles(515 vs 469) but part of that is that the PA model uses Manifold Geometry while the SupCom Striker doesn't but even then you can see the core proportions are very similar, the PA model, while not realistically detailed, is still realistically proportioned, which is really the most important part because while the details won't read so well the more zoomed out you are(until the Strategic Icons Pop on at least) the proportions will read much more easily.

So in the End, yeah PA isn't Call of Duty:RTS Warfare, but to call it cartoony is really just as wrong.

Lastly, what it is true PA will have bigger battles, but I feel you incorrectly judge the actual size you'll be seeing, while its true you'll have the capacity for larger battles, as aways you will be limited by the size of your economy and, particular to PA, the area of each planet. So while it might be possible that overall, you have more units that you could have EVER fielded in TA, but the chances that you all have them in one place is incredibly slim, more likely they'll be spread out across your planets, making for not so a bigger battle as much as smaller battles that all contribute to the same War.

Also it's still Alpha and all that blah blah.

Mike

I can see what you mean by that PA will never be better then TA but PA is still a great game. PA has a lot of potential on how the battle field isn't just a square, i'ts a giant globe. TA is a great game but we have to look to the future of RTS games. PA could be a unique game and it will show how much it has to offer in gaming. In other words, it will be a lot of fun . You will have great memories and great battles to share with your friends and family just like you did in TA. If you have a bad attitude like you have about PA, It will not be fun. My advice, enjoy the game that Uber is making and have a great time. I also played TA and Supreme commander 1 and 2 (2 not as good as 1) and I know how you feel. PA might not stand close to TA but it can still be fun.

I don't hate you if you don't like PA but I hope you try it out and I hope you have fun

I should make clear that I don't hate PA, since I haven't actually played it and can only go by the YouTube videos that I've seen.

But I do know what I like. I like being able to focus on tactical battles where I can see units in all their glory as they belch fire and are blown apart by salvos. My fear is that PA will involve so many battles going on simultaneously so that it's near impossible to truly be involved in what's going on at any given moment with any given battle.

As for the graphics, I much preferred the realistic styling of the environments in TA and SCFA, where trees burned down when scorched by weapons fire. I still get the sense that the PA environment is cartoonish to some degree, much like its units.

Hopefully, much will change about PA with this regard.

I think the environments will become more interactive and destructible as time goes on. I will be quite surprised if PA doesn't let you set the trees on fire for instance like TA and FA did.

I feel that your concern about not being able to be involved in every fight is a valid one. But then again you can always play on a smaller planet to alleviate that somewhat. And I think that the prospect of more than one player per army will also help with this.

I agree about the overall style though. It does feel a bit more like WoW than FA just due to the way the textures look. I don't feel that this is a bad thing per say, its just different as far as RTS games go. But this may also change as the engine is refined further.

I don't think the planets and units are realistically scaled, dude. Having tanks and planets on a scale similar to Earth would mean it would takes weeks or months to drive a slow lumbering tank from one side to another

Good call on PA having the stylings of WoW. While I don't think it's a bad thing per se, the WoW stylings are not my cup of tea. The TA and SCFA stylings are.

Understood. But that's why I think PA's exaggerated scalings lend an element to PA adopting a "light" WoW-like styling as opposed to the realistic stylings of TA and SCFA.

I loved the fact that some maps in SCFA were so large that it made sense to build aircraft carriers as refueling stations for long range bombers (lest they run out of fuel before and after a long-range bombing run).

But PA negates the need for such logistics because the units are unrealistically as large as whole cities are (especially on the smaller sized planets).

As much as I admire the ambitiousness of the PA developers, I don't think I would ever consider PA the spiritual successor to TA and SCFA based on what I've seen in YouTube videos so far.

Texture mods are very much anticipated, although I despair a little when the internet thinks every attempt at stylized art design and colourful texturing is lazy, cheap or just downright bad

I'm not one who things that stylized art design and colorful texturing is lazy, cheap, or bad.

But I do know that it's just not my cup of tea.

Personally, I think the stylings of PA (alpha) don't convey the level of "seriousness" that the stylings of TA and SCFA did.

With the stylings of TA and SCFA, I really felt as if I was fighting a war of domination against implacable enemies.

With the stylings of PA (alpha), I can't help shake the feeling that I'm battling pre-school children for dominion over the playground.

The PA (alpha) stylings are something I'd expect from the developers of the Lego-styled games, not the developers of TA and SCFA.

PA (alpha) stylings are a step backwards in my opinion.

A different visual style isn't a step anywhere in terms of progress, forwards or back. Although less-realistic looking games usually tend to age a LOT better than games with a realistic style

I think a game's stylings conveys a lot about a game (e.g. the level of its "seriousness", its target audience, etc.).

Personally, I feel PA (alpha)'s stylings are backwards in the sense that its developers are trying to appeal to a larger audience of gamers (e.g. the Lego series of games). I think TA and SCFA's stylings were such where its developers were trying to appeal to serious RTS gamers who regarded how a battle looked just as importantly as how it actually played.

Less realistic-styled games age better on average because they appeal to a wider age-demographic (young kids, teens, some adults, etc.).

I'll add that if the PA (alpha) styling turn out to be the final style, then I probably won't buy PA until someone who thinks as I do creates a mod where the look of PA is less "young child-oriented" and more "hardcore adult-oriented" in the stylings of TA and SCFA.

I want to gaze in awe as my realistic-styled units pulverize enemy units to pieces as they are demolished in turn in the stylings of TA and SCFA. What I don't want to see are my units blown apart of Lego toys.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcVdXzpLqe4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bGJvLwz7t8

On a large scale, more bold, simple textures help to keep performance costs down and add a lot of clarity. From a high up scale, gritty realistic trucks driving across muddy ground would be hard to make out.
And art style has very little to do with demographic in the way you mention. CoD is a grimy "realistic" game and attracts a lot of immature kids in about the same way TF2 does. They both have kiddy players regardless of artstyle, but the former moreso than the latter.

The game also takes place on smaller planetoids due to technical constraints rather than full sized planets, so with more realistic aesthetics it would probably look more ridiculous, having well-detailed alpine forests that take up 90% of the planet with like 200 trees.

I have really enjoyed reading these posts. I too, have played all of the games listed, TA is my all time favourite. I'm getting close to the big 50, so I'm no spring chicken. I also have memories of battles won and lost, sleepless nights thinking of my revenge strategies.

I backed PA early and have high expectations, however there is one thing I don't want and that is TA. I've played it! I love it! I remember it! but its time for something new.

So far I couldn't be happier, well I could I have been without the Internet for a week as construction work at my neighbours has cut my Internet cable, resulting in me missing the last few Alpha builds. Why is this relevant? I'm missing playing the game, I'm missing having a quick chat with people from around the world. I'm missing testing a new strategy, or that moment when another player begins an attack, or when I counter attack. Even when I am looking through my "rose coloured" TA glasses. I'm now having the same fun playing an Alpha build PA as I did all those years ago playing TA.

I'm quietly confident that PA will be all that myself and many many have wished it will be. A game built by people with a vision, supported by those with the same vision. Long live TA, but more importantly welcome PA; a lot of hopes rest on your shoulders. :geek:

Yes, I understand WHY the simplistic styling was used in PA (high up scale, performance issues, etc.).

That's why I prefer the smaller, close in scale and operational nature of TA and SCFA.

My fear is that PA will turn out to be the spiritual successor to R.U.S.E in space and NOT that of TA and SCFA.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjvNwYqwiFo

starcraft 2

TT_TT whyyyyy do you even care about PA if that's an issue for you?

TT_TT .... just .... just ...Ahhhhhh ... THERE ARE 200 trees....

at the very freakin least right now

I'm quiet surprised. Personnaly i find the general design of PA much closer of TA than SupCom. It s even a reason i didnt play SupCom, and i prefered Balanced Annihilation on Spring.

Here some random snapshot i have found on google image, it seems clear.

Snapshot from TA

Snapshot from SCFA

Snapshot from PA


By the way, i take this opportunity to congratulate the Uber staff for their design choices (except for the commander a bit too japanised with its tiny legs, but i m picky)

Please don't ruin the game with this kind of things.