Maybe a solution to the fragile bot problems.

I have the firm belief that bots die WAY to easily and it is too easy to stall into OT in this game simply because tanks and Assassins can kill bots way before you can do something to stop it a lot of the time and it is a very good strategy to kill yourself in the process to stop a bot rush which happens quite a bit. I think one method of fixing this issue is to make the Support aura actually useful my making them a much bigger threat in close quarters to combat Assassins and Tanks.

Another idea I had is to make more powerful bots spawn as the game progresses like Blitz. That way OT doesn't need to happen because bots will eventually get too strong to combat so easily and you will actually have to push them. I don't think this game is nearly as depthy as it should be in this regard. Adding more bots just means more juice and money to Assassins and Tanks.

EDIT: Honestly, I have no idea why the second idea wasn't implimented much earlier when OT was first complained about.

So essentially the game becomes a ticking time bomb.

The thing is that people don't want to have most of their attention focused onto bots, especially as the game progresses towards the stage where people have gotten most of their required skills. It's already been seen there is enough frustration with the Bouncers in Spunky Cola. I think the current system provides a good balance between making players focus on both bots and players.

But that's just me being old fashioned and boring. Just offering my current two cents here.

The only issue is that having a team with a tank and or assassin that kills bots like a mofo is great but one other player has to protect your bots.

As a tank I do this by destroying other bot waves or pros headed for our bot waves.

As an assassin I use my smokebomb to stall level one and two rocket turrets so my bots can slip through if I dont have the juice or passive 3 to take it down.

Bouncers are only annoying because Spunky is an awful map. Adding more annoyances to an already poor (and in my opinion the worst) map will never improve that.

Bots will stop to shoot at any turret between them and the money ball route. Making the turrets not shoot will only prevent damage on the bots while they stand around and try to destroy the turret.

Turrets, other bots and firebases (I think) are the only thing that will make a bot stop moving. They will move and shoot pros. Jackbots are a bit different however, they will stop and shoot at pros in front of them.

The problem with bouncers is similar to laggy tanks from Europe or somewheres joining U.S. servers. Their effective distance seems much greater than you think because they just transition to your position. I think the other pro bots could use a serious buff.

I mean is anyone close to getting the buzzer achievement? Xcal, who got me interested in MNC, heartily recommended buzzers on the xbox version but I don't notice them doing any work on the PC.

There are a few problems with the current bot setup.

Slim bots are simply TOO weak given the fact that every single class has a way to kill basically every slim bot in a bot wave in 1 attack. They are a non-threat. The only time slimbots are an issue is for an assault trying to escape by flying over a bot wave.

As the game progresses the bots need to get stronger to match how the pros are getting stronger. They don't need to become MAJORLY stronger but they need to slowly gain in damage and health. By the 15minute mark they should be about 25-30% stronger than at the game start.

Certain classes need a small reduction in their bot killing efficiency. Level 3 product grenade should not kill an entire bot wave given how short the cooldown is and how good the Tank is at killing bots even without using the product grenade. Likewise the Assassin's sword needs a reduction in its multiplier vs bots given that she also gets a damage bonus from slashing from behind. The change should be enough to leave them still as the best bot killing classes, but also enough that the bots last longer than 1.5-2seconds in the face of these classes.

Increased cooldowns on the ejector and annihilator would also go a long way towards making bots more of a gameplay factor and less of walking ATMs. Another option would be to remove the money/bot kill streak bonuses for using these tools. Often times when the enemy team has been making a strong push I can spawn, suicide rush the annihilator, and end up maybe only having spent $100 since I get a $50 bot streak bonus and like 20botkills at $5 a pop, plus any assists/kills/jackbot assists.

The ejectors have plenty of cooldown. If you want to get your bots through without them being ejected, use the thing yourself. Ejector denial is a valid tactic and increasing the cooldown doesn't fix your problem if the enemy are the ones still using it.

The biggest problem people have is when a tank, sin, or both are destroying your bots and ONLY your bots. Speaking as a sin myself i find it my duty to eradicate any bot i see that isn't mine. I will dive into a group escorted by a tank if i can get away with it.

Nerfing the assassins damage against bots for a second time will not fix the issue either. A support and a tank with a group of bots (when the support has passive 2 and has overhealed the blackjacks) is the most annoying thing i ever come across when trying to kill bots.

Yet every class besides Sin can kill them easily from far away.

Last I checked it was the JUICE GAIN that was nerfed not the damage.

Am I wrong?

For the first time ever, i think you're actually right about something. :lol:

The patch nerfed damage of the sword and dagger against turrets, not bots. And yes, nerfed the juice gain from bots. Not that it stops the juice gain of a melee attack.


I stand by the fact bots should remain unchanged. Unguarded bots are easy for anyone to kill. Guarded bots are another matter, assuming it's more than 1 person. There are two lanes and 6 people. Do the math.

I would love to see you escort a bot when they have a big Air Strike symbol on their head. It is WAY to easy to kill bots with too many classes. Thats why stronger late game bots would be a good thing because they are not so fragile so escorting them is actually possible. I don't see why there is a downside to this. Plus later game turrets can only get stronger so I don't see why we shouldn't get stronger bots to compensate.

They do get stronger. First waves are 4 slims plus 1 blackjack. After every Jackbot round, one slim is replaced by one blackjack.

Those were some GG's earlier Fireman

Like i've said earlier, having more bots really isn't anything but extra juice and money to the people destroying them which only makes it easier to kill them.

Even having nothing but jackbots won't stop people smashing them because nobody defends them enough, long enough, or enough of them. It's not JUST about the front runners. Sure, the bots are on thier own pretty weak. And yes, dropping an airstrike beacon on a group will seal the deal. So will the sins lunge, or the tanks death blossom, an ejector, etc, etc. But just making the bots more powerful isn't really going to fix that problem. Unless they can survive an airstrike level attack, as you just mentioned.

I find the bots strength is in quantity, not quality.

It needs to be both.

Surviving air strikes aren't a requirement due to the longish cooldown on air strike. Whereas deathblossom, lunge, level 3 product grenade, two shots from a sniper rifle, are all available more often than bots spawn.

They need to be less "clumpy" and they need a little bit better stats.

I only have two things to say...

Pub. games player spawned bots help push lanes. Sure you might not get a kill but they force Pros/Players to either deal with them or avoid them. Players dealing with them will give you an opening. Playing avoiding them will give you an opening. If a bot has not Pro to attack it will attack turrets and the Moneyball. Rock-It turrets have a hard time shooting their base which means and unguarded bot will do a fair amount of damage.

Private/Comp. games dead/fleeing Pros can't kill bots. You'd be surprised at the ease of pushing bots in competitive games. Bots become secondary to map control and get pushed in at key moments.

Really it depends on the bot.

Bouncers/gapshots do a good job helping push a lane

Buzzers fail for more often than they succeed at being useful.

Gremlins are good in huge bunches but you need to spawn them like 4x to truly have them be more than a nuisance.

And Scramblers are a good idea that needs tweaks because they are currently too easy to simply destroy without any consequence.

Scramblers are more of a defensive bot.

True, but they aren't very good at that either XD

They are just TOO situational. They need a little work.

The buzzers need work mostly because they are apparently inbred and spend so much time running into walls that by the time they choose a second target they are almost out of time (since they self destruct after 20seconds.)