Make Air T1.5

Discussion in 'Balance Discussions' started by stuart98, February 21, 2014.

  1. stuart98

    stuart98 Post Master General

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    Seriously, so many issues in the game would be solved by this that I can't understand why uber wouldn't do this.
  2. mered4

    mered4 Post Master General

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    Interesting Idea.

    Very interesting..............
    stuart98 likes this.
  3. stuart98

    stuart98 Post Master General

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    Air 1st is mandatory. Air 1st isn't fun. Com rushes. Transports being t2 to combat com rushes.

    All of these issues can be solved by this change.

    Also, it's not like this is without precedent. TA had T1.5 hovercraft platforms: http://totalannihilation.wikia.com/wiki/Hovercraft_Platform

    When something can't be balanced at T1 because it becomes mandatory, move it to T1.5 and many issues are fixed.
    Last edited: February 21, 2014
  4. hohopo

    hohopo Member

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    The trick is how are we going to make it work, air scouts are key to scouting more so on things like lava so people still want them quickly.
    Do we add another level of air factory (making it a 3 tier group) do we make the other engineers build them? do we make air fabbers built by the commander? Are air factories built in orbit dropping the units down?
  5. stuart98

    stuart98 Post Master General

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    Buff vehicle scouts and increase boom vision range. Problem with scouting (somewhat) solved.
  6. bmb

    bmb Well-Known Member

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    T1 transport/scouts are basically a terrible idea. Fighters are cheap enough you can use them as scouts anyway.
  7. thetrophysystem

    thetrophysystem Post Master General

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    Interesting idea. I don't like it, however...

    ...It would solve using pelicans too early, or incorrect usage of air in general. It also makes air the support role it should be, and encourages use of ground troops first (especially land scout, few others use those in place of air scouts besides me)

    ...However, it does make it a second class citizen. Generally, ideal balance should make it a first class citizen. Generally, to do that in my opinion, the pelican would have to move slower for heavier things (t2 tanks and commanders), there would need to be a t1 sustained damage unit not quite the gunship, and there would have to be a more specialized version of everything for t2.

    But, I admit the idea is cool, if it weren't insulting. Heh, reminds me of my arguement that t1 should be orbital. It is great that it is as close to it as it is now, but it was moving CLOSER to equal citizenship, this move is FARTHER AWAY and just feels fueled by people's hatred of air usage last few builds.

    Tsk, maybe Uber should just nerf to ungodliness air for a few patches just to relieve some tension in players for a bit. Then they can see where they want to bring them back up to, (but then you have those people who will insult this game once air gets buffed even a little again)
    stuart98 likes this.
  8. Quitch

    Quitch Post Master General

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    So water planets became navy first only. Lava planets heavy on the magma require a pointless first factory. Large planets with small numbers of players still require the same openings as small planets.

    I don't like it. It reduces my opening options and on some biomes lengthens the no contact phase for absolutely no reason that I can see. What do we gain by this change?
  9. zweistein000

    zweistein000 Post Master General

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    I first I was lol no, but come to think about it, it actually does make sense, air does become support, but I'm still not sure if that will fix transports form t1 air and if it doesn't I don't particularly see the need to do that.
    stuart98 likes this.
  10. bobucles

    bobucles Post Master General

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    2/10.
    Problems caused by a Commander should be fixed by the Commander. PA has two major transport types, a super light tiny one and a heavy planetary one. Figure it out.
  11. bmb

    bmb Well-Known Member

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    I suppose and I hope that the current way the astraeus works is temporary placeholder stuff. Air transports will need to be viable for planetary transportation before that changes.
  12. stuart98

    stuart98 Post Master General

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    Should air be a "first class citizen" though? Air should be simply a support role. You shouldn't be able to go all air and hope to win. With bot, or vehicle, or (on water planets) naval, you should be able to go all of one factory tech tree and win. Not as easily as if you built a mix of factories, but it should be doable. That shouldn't be the case with air. Therefore, we need to ask if we even want air to be a first class citizen, given how radically different its role is (withering down enemy armies for your defenses or armies to kill with ease, conducting raids on enemy defenses to open up the way for your ground armies, taking out enemy eco, and transporting your own armies; air should never be able to take out a ground army made with the same metal/metal cost as long as the ground army has good composition). I think T1.5 air makes sense because it illustrates to players that air shouldn't ever be the mainstay of your armies like ground is, much the same as advanced/specialized factories shouldn't be your bread and butter factories at any point in the game. Air simply is going to be too good at doing what it does early game unless they nerf it to the point where it's never good at doing what it's supposed to do until it's moved from T1 to T1.5.
  13. Quitch

    Quitch Post Master General

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    I don't have a problem with someone being able to go all air, what I have a problem with is that right now I also have to go air to counter it.
    stuart98 and thetrophysystem like this.
  14. thetrophysystem

    thetrophysystem Post Master General

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    air being its best counter is a problem. And unless t1 air becomes t2, it won't solve it. Better to just balance air

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