Lob bot launcher feels terrible...

Discussion in 'Balance Discussions' started by stylisticsagittarius, September 11, 2015.

  1. stylisticsagittarius

    stylisticsagittarius Active Member

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    2015-09-11_00001.jpg Altough a cool design this building is actually never used where for what it is ment...

    It is now just a performance eating fats building t1 bot spammer.
    The t1 bot factory is almost useless with these things around.
    For my part they can go out of the game,
    But if they'd rebalanced it it would be better.

    As a start bot's build in this launcher must be more expensive then built in a normal factory, in countrary for that the bot launcher may have increased range so people would use it more for what it is ment to be.

    I watch often games and there are meny people who spamm these launchers and purely attack with hordes hordes and hordes of t1 bots and when managed properly there is nothing that can stop this from taking your full attention until you finally defeat them.

    but back to the point i don't think this was ment to be...
  2. igncom1

    igncom1 Post Master General

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    While I agree that you shouldn't be able to fire them at the ground.

    Why shouldn't they allow a player to attack with a force that takes your attention?
  3. Killerkiwijuice

    Killerkiwijuice Post Master General

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    Honestly, they should shoot boom bots. Shooting boom bots into an army is absolutely devastating (although it's not OP)

    @tvinita
  4. pjkon1

    pjkon1 Member

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    Umm, the problem is that we are trying to make useful a unit that's prinary function is to fire by some distance an amphibious unit. That is not getting fixed. Right now it's just a defensive micro saver, which is nice, but not of great utility.
  5. huangth

    huangth Active Member

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    I don't get you points.
    Using lob to create dox is more expensive than bot factroy,
    and lob doesn't create free dox!
    The price for creating a dox from lob is 60 metal rather than 45,
    though the metal consumption isn't shown on the lob.

    I never think the T1 bot factory is useless, factory can build many other units.
    Last edited: September 11, 2015
  6. huangth

    huangth Active Member

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    I may be wrong, and the information of PADB is quite confuing.
    So I make some test.

    Initial Condition:
    There is only the commander, no metal extractor.
    The metal income is +20 per sec.
    Image 002.png


    When the Lob is recharging, the income of metal is +5 per sec.
    So we can know the metal consumption of lob is -15 per sec,
    while the lob doesn't cost the energy.
    Image 003.png


    Compare the construction power between two bot factories with one Lob.
    Both sides cost 1200 metals, the period is the cycle of Lob to recharge.
    Image 004.png
    Left side: 12 dox
    Right side: 9 dox
    The bot factories with the same metal price can build even more dox than the lob builds.

    If you just want to build dox, you should always build bot factory!
    And you should only use the lob as tactical weapon.
    Last edited: September 11, 2015
    igncom1 and walmartdialup like this.
  7. stylisticsagittarius

    stylisticsagittarius Active Member

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    that's what i mean but we see in many games that the lob definitly is being used as a factory...

    Do not forget that space is also a valuable resources and you can have much more lobs in the same space as of some factory's. and a lob creates dox's faster and the little metal it costs more is very very little compared to others costs in the game. and why even test it, people are massivly using this the wrong way...
  8. burntcustard

    burntcustard Post Master General

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    Can confirm.

    Lobs use 60 metal per Dox rather than 45, in my books making them near-useless.

    EDIT: Also as has been mentioned, this is unintuitive and a lot of people assume that the Lob-Dox still cost 45. Should certainly be changed in my opinion.
    Last edited: September 11, 2015
    huangth likes this.
  9. walmartdialup

    walmartdialup Active Member

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    Yes! Good idea. If this launcher is supposed to be a tactical launcher, meaning its supposed to be used to breach over walls and terrain, boom bots would be an excellent alternative. They can cause damage but don't have the ability to last, making an actual army also important.

    On a side note, sometimes the launcher has a difficult time launching units to its maximum possible distance. Often, I have to build the launchers closer than necessary for them to be viable with their purpose. Not sure why this happens.
  10. huangth

    huangth Active Member

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    I disagree with you.
    The space isn't the major factor in early game,
    but the cost efficiency greatly affects the battle of early game.

    If you see the player who builds a lot of lobs for just building dox,
    it is simple that they don't know the lob costs them even more metal to build dox.

    I want to say it twice, the bot factories with the same metal build more dox than lob!!!
    Build speed: 12 dox vs 9 dox
    Build cost of every dox: 45 vs 60
    In every aspect, the bot factories have superiority.

    Bot factories are more cheaper, easier to be available.
    And they get more construction power, more units choices.
    Finally and the most important, it only costs 45 metal per dox, while the lob costs 60 metal per dox.
    45 : 60 = 3 : 4
    If you use lob to build 30 dox, you can use bot factories to build 40 dox with the same price.
    It is very very great difference.
  11. huangth

    huangth Active Member

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    I also agree that the lob should launch the bomb bot since the dox is too weak to defend or assault the enemy.
    But if the lob really launches the bomb bot, I think its range should get nerf.

    Can someone check whether the drop pad of lob can be intercepted or not?
    I am not sure aa turret and umbrella can do it or not.
    I only know the umbrella can intercept the drop pad from enemy unit cannon.
  12. stuart98

    stuart98 Post Master General

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    +1 to making them shoot boom bots, this is what I'm doing in GA.
  13. stylisticsagittarius

    stylisticsagittarius Active Member

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    perhaps making the lob a bit larger cuzz you guys say that space isn't a problem in early game but it really is...
  14. huangth

    huangth Active Member

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    Don't close yourself and the space is fine.
    It is really no need to make a lot of walls as your first figure.

    Once you need more space to build the factories,
    just send your fabricators outside to drop and drag a row of factories.
    The factories can be built everywhere.
    If you insist that the factories can only be built behind the wall or a small area such as the high ground,
    you will never get enough space.

    The wall won't save you in long game.
    The expansion, eco, and unit production will.
  15. stylisticsagittarius

    stylisticsagittarius Active Member

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    i completely agree with you.
    But people who uses this are not using 5 lobs their using 25 lobs.
    Making it bigger would definitly make it harder for them to use them as factory's.
    Or perhaps a slower build rate could also do something so they'won't make as many dox that often.
  16. huangth

    huangth Active Member

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    In most of the cases,
    the space of base isn't an important factor to force the player to use the Lob to replace the bot factory.
    And I never close myself in a small area with the walls.
    As the external metal extractors are increased, I will need more space to spam the T1 factory or even the T2 factory.
    If I have no space to build the factory, I always just simply build the factories outside the current base.
    And I only use the wall to defend some specific positions.

    The current lob is not so useful, it takes more metal but no energy for making each single dox.
    But the metal is much more important than energy.
    And the lob is even more expensive than the bot factory with one power plant.
    So I believe that the lob is not a good structure to use.

    I hope the lob can be buff.
    Here are some ideas.
    1. Reduce the metal per dox from 60 to 45.
      Thus, the lob can be used to replace the bot factory in the long term.
      It just takes more 200 metal than the bot factory + one power plant take.
      I think it is still well balanced.
    2. Replace the dox with boom bot.
      The lob can become a true defensive or offensive building.
    3. Allow the lob to launch more types of units with additional metal cost.
      Such as bot fabricators, grenadier, spark, or stitch.
      So the lob becomes a cheap and limited range T1 unit cannon.
    4. Make the lob a springboard with limited range.
      Player can send units to the lob and jump into the enemy base.
      It is still very different to the teleporter because the lob is a one way structure.
      And it is not the Helios since the lob is static and its range is restricted.
  17. stuart98

    stuart98 Post Master General

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    As a note, the actual lob cost is 825 metal. It comes with 500 metal, equivalent to 8 and a third Lob dox which cost 375 metal normally.

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