Laser turrets are too cheap/T1 land armies have vanished

This gets talked about a lot, I'm surprised there's no topic.

Anyway, quite simply turrets have shut down the T1 game. It's simply too easy to put turrets everywhere, which in turn are more than cost effective against T1 forces. This has reduced T1 to the occasional bot harrass, but primarily it's a tier you build fabbers in while pushing through to T2 where your army is.

The commanders uber effect uber cannon might be a factor in this, but he's slow and has short range so I don't think so. It's because you can slap towers everywhere and T1 units just can't get close. Infernos are too slow (and in large numbers would invite enemy T1 kiting) and everything else is too fragile.

I think the damage output of towers is fine, but their placement should be more considered than it is now and therefore they should be more expensive. Especially when you can slap a cheap wall near them and then it's over because T1 has no wall counter, the Inferno is required in numbers which aren't cost effective.

Everything leads to a rapid tech to T2. A T1 rush simply isn't a viable tactic anymore and T1 armies have vanished. The current ground game is superb, it just needs a little tweak to bring T1 back to increase our options.

Yeah I tried spamming turrets. Trust me, it doesn't work.

I could link you the match but the guy who streamed it barely interacted with me at all so I doubt you'd get any information.

Yeah, if anything the cheapness of units makes it really really easy to overwhelm enemy turrets in just pure numbers.

Even T1 land scouts can easily mob enemy turrets to death.

What on earth are you guys talking about? Rushing t2 is the current meta because it's the only counter to turrets. Every game in the tournament yesterday went that way. A laser turret costs just 300 metal. It is magnitudes more cost effective to use turrets to defend against units, and that's not even taking into account using walls as well. Yes you can overwhelm a 300 metal turret with 3000 metal worth of t1 units but where does that leave you? A couple thousand metal down the drain.

Then is that the turrets fault, or the availability of siege units at T1?

Erm... it's because turret cost got halved. Would T1 turret counters be nice? Yes, but not necessary.

It's because Im a fan of effective counters, effective turrets, effective siege, effective tanks.

Oh, they are effective.

THEY ARE JUST TOO DARNED CHEAP

I am having trouble in games because I dont spam t2 as a general rule. Now, I can and am adjusting to this, but I'd rather not, simply because it will get changed in the future, and the sooner the better.

I'd also like to point out that I LIKE AA being so cheap, and the single laser defense only needs a small price increase. Everything else can go back to regular prices.

Well, actually, the single laser turret might be better off at full price. I dunno.

I am just saying, is it because they are too cheap, or because your T1 options for dealing with them are all kinda crappy?

Interestingly godde noted that the single laser tower isn't as good at hitting bots as the dual laser tower, assuming they're moving at an angle to the tower e.g. 90 degrees.

I think it's because they're too cheap. The lack of T1 siege units is why walls shut down T1 play.

Then I won't disagree.

really, nobody actually accounts unit health and other things that might change later anyway.

besides, the most important factor is that the unit moves. If they catch a turret in construction its no contest. If they send 10 units at a turret the turret kills one by time the rest are in range then it goes downhill. If you have a hundred, it takes more than 1 to 3 turrets because by time 4 units die 30 are in firing range and dps rises dramatically while the turret stays the same. Its high numbers which outscale turrets, with less and less losses

That's not how it plays out. Say you need 3000 metal to take down my 300 metal turret, I can have ten turrets for every army you have. This is more than enough to place turrets everywhere with metal to spare. The cost equation at this point is heavily weighted in favour of the turrets.

They are too cheap. Before the price increase, I had no trouble finding the units to punch through one or two towers if I needed to. Now, I cant find enough units LATE GAME to punch through some folks' defensive lines.

That's without the support of an army

Yikes.

Pushing thorough them.....without your army?

There is your problem.

I have not found turrents to be a problem, they only delay and I can still get large amount of map control

And yet no matter how many t1 units you have you will still lose more metal than you destroy. This is even before we factor in usage of walls.

But you have to admit, that if turrets become comparable to normal units in terms of cost and fire-power, that there would be no point in using them.

And defensive players will always find a way to afford them.

So is just changing their cost even going to make a difference?

Weren't you arguing against me in that other thread when I basically stated the same?
I fully agree though - turrets completely shut off any T1 ground combat.
They simply doo too much damage (basically oneshotting almost everything), fire way too fast and are way too cheap.
Combine that with walls and they are impossible to break for anything but artillery.

They still had cost effective confrontations before. Now they are just even better. If you invest say 1-2000 in units and the time in making them and travelling to my base, all I have to do is spot you coming a mile off from t1 radar and build a 300 metal turret.