JUICE=Rage?

Before I start, I KNOW this has been discussed, I just feel like expressing my opinion on this matter and my thoughts, and I hope you can all appreciate why I'm doing this.

That's right. I've narrowed it down to the one thing that makes me RAGE :evil: in this game. Not assaults, not lag (although both can be very annoying), not bad teammates, and not framerate problems. I've narrowed it down to one thing that reminds me why I have a whole desk drawer that contains FIVE broken controllers (not from MNC).

Juice

It's obviously the most powerful thing in this game (bacon not with-standing). But the reason I have no qualms about bacon is because it is VERY rare and in overtime, everyone has it so it's not much of an issue. Juice, however, is very common, and a little is given for everything you do. Another thing that annoys me is why meleeing things gives so much juice, really...half a juice pick-up per melee?! Wow. Think about it, do you REALLY think it's fair that you can just hit right stick the duration that Bullseye is up, and have a full bar of juice...I sure don't. For turning you into a freaking Super-Saiyan I really think it's all too accessible.

The thing for me that really makes juice too much is the fact that you can buy it for $500 from juice machines with a 60 second cool down timer. Of course I really should say 30 since there are two of these on every map, Spunky Cola being the only one where they aren't near the Annihilator. All you need to do is get a small streak going, kill some bots or some turrets on the side maybe, get juice naturally once or twice, and BAM!, you can now abuse juice. I've actually recorded down my last 100 deaths in this game, and 36 of them are from juice. This is just me, it might be different for the rest of you. But doesn't it seem odd that over ONE THIRD of my deaths are from juice? Let's be honest, it takes no skill whatsoever to kill someone when you're juiced. All you do is point, shoot, rinse and repeat, all in the matter of ten seconds, and in those ten seconds I average 3-5 kills with my juice.

Note that I have nothing against juice, I think it's a cool idea, just taken too far. I like it because it's a FANTASTIC counter to people just sitting in their base with hacked rock-it turrets and firebases.

Anyways, as I was saying, juice should not be something that can just be purchased. Some people think that juice machines should just be removed. I agree, either that or progressively make them more expensive. I also have a feeling that making everything you do while juiced giving only half cash-back isn't gonna do crap.

I've encountered many people who have good scores consistently, but only because they juice-chain. It get's very annoying when I'm about to kill someone, but then he just lights up like a christmas tree, puts a few bullets in me, kills me, then just walks off and does the same to 2 or three more unfortunate players, and then once it's over, the process just repeats.

And I know what some might say: "Well if you were any good you could kill people before they got juice."

I'm only one man, there are SIX people on the other team...SIX. Seeing as juice can actually be built up from the safety and comfort of your own base, and assassins gain juice VERY fast because the melee to kill bots and what not, there's really not much I can do.

I have a few ideas that will make juice less of a problem, here's one that I don't think has been brought up, but I could be wrong:

Do what I've recommended earlier in this post, but buff the ever so useless juice endorsement. Make it so it actually increases the rate at which you earn juice, and not just give you juice at spawn. That way, if people need juice SO BAD, they need to give up an endorsement slot. This may or may not encourage people to lean away from traditional endorsements, such as RoF, Armor, Skill Regen...etc.

What do you think? Please be civil...

Buying juice needs to be ousted. People just buy juice over and over again if they see someone they know (whether it be hating or just wanting to impress, either way is ****ing annoying) and juice on them. You can also do it without them buying juice but chances are if they're wasting their seldom-gained juice on you instead of playing the game then they probably aren't doing much anyway. Ah, this reminds me when sik synz 77 or what the **** ever juiced on me like 6 times in one match and only killed me once. LOL

PREACH ON BROTHER

Juice has its place in the game. It should not be removed. It should be available to buy.
I think the best solutions are to make the cooldown longer OR increase the price to say 600/700 OR make the price increase for each time you buy it.
Sure it doesn't take skill to kill someone with juice but tell me what does take skill.

Depends on what you define as skill.

I agree pretty much completely Russ. Price of juice should be bumped up to $1000.

The problem with gimping or removing juice buying is that once a team gains solid control of the bot lanes, if you can't buy juice, there's no real way to get it. I mean of course you could take the bot lanes back but, that's going to be hard. You have bots and pros crashing down on your base. On top of that, the other team has been killing or even camping bots and probably have juice themselves. You have none and you can't buy it

As the game is now, if the other team controls the bot lanes, you can slowly scrape money together, buy juice and try to clear the lanes, giving your team a chance.

Without juice buying, bot lane control=end of game, and I personally don't want the game to turn into that.


I wouldn't be totally opposed to them lengthening the juice buying timer, but they'd have to test it on the PC first because Xbox updates are few and far between.

Juice is already receiving a lovely nerf with the lessened bonus for doing so.

Still, I would like to see less an emphasis placed on pro killing with it, and more towards the objective. Me personally, I'd like a juiced player to take more damage. Thattah way, you're still a monster, but you actually have to worry about three players and a Rockit Turrent instead of just taunting in front of them for teh lulz.

Or, have him deal less damage. Either or.

As it is, juice has a few unnecessary, and sadly game breaking (?) aspects to it.

again:
there is a huge difference between competitive and public play and bothg playstyles need to be considdered when adjusting the game dynamics.

Most competitive play is in private matches where rules can be set on juice. I would say to adjust juice to fit public matches and just add more options in the private match settings to be able to set the proper amount of juice gained deemed necessary.

Somehow I missed Tom's reply....

Exactly. Look at the whole "MLG" deal on Halo and other shooters. Make it FUN for the public, with the OPTION for competitiveness. That being said, it still needs to be balanced. But, for the hardcore competitive games, let them mess with it.

Competitively, I think juice is fine as it is, to be honest. It's not THAT hard to counter. Like, yeah, you're probably going to die. But kill death just doesn't matter, and the sooner you get grasp on that, the better. Go grapple the mofo, taunt in his face while he's killing you, and then boom.

If he's beating on bullseye, I say you shouldn't have allowed them to get the map control to do that in the first place.

If he's meleeing bots, you probably shouldn't have let them get the map control to do that in the first place.

If he's buying juice, you probably shouldn't have allowed him to get the money for that in the first place.

This game is designed to give an advantage to those that are winning, and the more you're winning, the stronger that advantage gets. If you learn to control the map the way your class is set up to map control, it shouldn't be a problem unless your team isn't holding up their end.

I think juice is fine in competitive, it's like a power weapon and the team with control will most likely control it. It sucks in pubs, though.

Lol. Main point there. Competitively, not a big deal. But, if it could be changed for pubs to make it more fair/fun, I would love it. Oh well.....

How is Juice not fair in pubs? Each team starts an equal distance away from the juice dispensers. Every players starts with the same amount of money. I don't see how juice is unfair in pubs? You know what happens when you start catering to casuals? You break the game.

More fun than fair. It's a love/hate thing with juice, and I know I look retarded because I'm arguing both sides on this one.

I love what it's for, but hate what it does.

As it is, it is balanced, it's just a pain to encounter. A lot.

But, all in all, I can't deny this:

F*ckin Reach man. Biggest disappointment ever.

this wasn't originally what I intended but so be it...I'm sick and tired of being killed by something that feels damn near impossible to counter. Like Halo: Reach, grenade at your feet? Dead. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. You die. I know juice does have it's counters, like ring outs and such, but it feels like it's been taken a step to far. I can remember a few names right off the top of my head, every one of their kills on me has been from juice, nothing else....

Remember what I said about only being one man? I don't always play with a party. I would love to be able to play without a party without having to worry about bad teammates and juice chaining. But that's another issue. When I do play with others I usually don't have this problem. All I'm saying is, juice should be taken down a notch. At the moment, people are getting 30 to 40 kills, and a great deal of those are just from juice chaining...

I play solo pubs all the time and quite often go against parties. Sure they may be "juice chaining" but some how I usually end up winning.

Juiced players a very easy to counter because they are so predictable. Also you don't always have to kill juicers, stalling them helps a lot more then players give credit for.

If you're going up against a party of juice chainers solo and win then they must be ****ing terrible unless they simply ignored the bots and you were Assassin. Even then, eh.