Juice Chaining

Chaining Juice has on Crossfire has completely ruined the game. Lastnight I was showing a new guy how to play and almost every single game we played in lastnight didn't just have 1 player that was chaining their juice over and over, but entire teams. It's become way to common and its out of control. It reduces the game to asbolutely no skill, juiced up spawn camping. Once one team gets into the rhythm of juice chaining, it is absolutely impossible for the other team to get it's balance back (if it ever had it in the first place). Whats even worse is half the time these players were doing this, they'd just ignore the Moneyball.. they're just Juice-spamming for kill count. I had to eventually stop playing because I couldn't take the team mates complaining + juice spam anymore.

I dont think Juice needs to be changed all that much in general to fix it, but the mechanism and time it takes for getting/using it should be looked at. The main problem is that while Juicing you can basically get enough cash back to immediately go buy Juice again, kill 5/6..some turrets, bots, then repeat cycle. You only have to "earn" juice once in a game, maybe twice early on or if you skip a beat... and that first one at the very begining you need to do as fast as you can, because in short: First to Juice wins, game over.

How about adding a 60 second cooldown to the ability to purchase Juice? This wouldn't prevent a player from earning Juice normally but it would stop players from spending money on Juice constantly.

It seems like one of the only few possibilities... but its delicate because if you cramp it up too much, the Juice use on Blitz gets ruined.. and in Blitz that's a key component of getting far in the game. Maybe for Blitz it could remain the same..

i would like to see juice not be buyable in crossfire. like was said before, you can just buy it, make enough kills to buy it again, and sometimes its an unending cycle.

buying juice is lame and should be taken out of the game...i do it all the time though.
:twisted:

I've been saying this for a long time. It's too easy to get juice and it makes building turrets a waste of time. While it isn't flat out gamebreaking, it removes one of the (I'm assuming) most important aspects of the game.

Honestly, I'm guilty of doing this myself too. I can't say I'm an amazing player or anything, but I get first on the game board fairly frequently. Since I stopped buying turrets, I have nothing to spend money on but juice and bots after my skills. If I do well enough early on I can chain juice enough to destroy all of the opposing turrets and defences with ease. I personally believe that juice should at least be looked at. I love the idea of juice when you get it through hard work, but the way it is now doesn't take much work at all.

I suggest that the price of juice goes up, so that it take more dedication of your money to buy it. That or something else to buy so that you have more of a choice, such as that bacon idea someone had

Not going to let this thread die...

A few people on these forums who think it's not a problem are the same players who make it a problem. Mostly playing in private matches or with other teammates utilizing the same methods doesn't make it alright to the general public playing this game. Forum members are a organized minority. Most people do not post on forums.

Crossfire is flawed as hell and has turned into one big juicing circle jerk for 20 or so people, running rampage as teammates over the thousands of other legit customers who've bought the game. Fortunately for digital download/arcade games.... you can't throw them in the trash or sell them off to be rid of them forever, you'll always own and have access to a copy as long as you have your xbox. This is has saved many games from ruin already. MNC is on the edge of becoming a badly reputed game... and if that happens, you won't find hardly anyone playing. I already know a ton of players that've quit playing completely.. some of those I've tried to convince to come back and show them how to Juice spam back to counter all these forum member teams that are ruining the lobbies, but even I get tired of arguing the inarguable. Sure, that makes me guilty as well but I tend not to do it unless I *have* to or if im raging for revenge. Takes the fun out of it.

First it was Pros taking down the shields and glitching Pros, now its Juice chaining all over the place. The mechanics of gameplay are broken in Crossfire. Juice makes it one dimensional K/D spam bait when the heart of the design is supposed to be teamplay and not death match. What other Death Match is loaded with so many 1 shot-1 kill moves or power? None. This game is not designed for that.

You might as well make all the players look like Mario or Luigi with a Star after they begin Juicing, because its that lame.

Expected response from those who juice-chain - "lul it's in the game and you can defend against it by getting map control and being better lul."

Which is sort of my response too; if people are doing it to often then just join another game. The people might be around your level and you'll have a fair time vying for map control.

However, I agree that once it starts, the game may as well be over. Without it you can at least mount a proper defense and coordinate counter-attacks to one side or the other. I've already said after playing them for a while that the assassin and snipers juice gain rate should be nerfed (maybe not the sin now since she got a bit nerfed) but another possible solution is that people do not gain any money while juiced. In this way they'll have to earn another juice rather than get juice from... juice.

I dunno.

Yeah I agree, but like you said...

.. once it gets going you cannot counter it or even try to cover the Juice banner. Trying to recover/counter succesfully may sometimes work out in private matches from time to time but even then it's rare... and thats when all 12 players are all familiar with the technique (term used loosely) and trying to Juice rush. So saying to defend the area is a straw-man argument and the few that'll whip it out are only thinking of their own little world or K/D ratio. You can't defend the area against a Juice rush just like you can't defend your turrets and base against a Juice rush, and the initial Juice rush is typically the "earned" one.. so it solves nothing. Besides, it's way way too 1-dimensional... any argument for it dismisses everything else thats wrong with it.

Occassionally, with an airstrike (more or less the only decent counter if the rush on you has already begun) you can get a "lol" moment by killing 3-4 people as they stand in line trying to get Juice. I've gotten plenty of multikills that way. Anyways.. that is, if the game isn't over already..


Don't think this can be emphasized enough;

Are you kidding? Look at any of the other popular shooters right now and they're all loaded with OHKOs. MNC has literally one guaranteed OHKO that will work against any pro any time, and that's the Gunner's pancake. Sure, there are a number of things that will OHKO in most cases, however like I said, that's not exactly uncommon among other games.

I agree the juice loops by packs of 3+ 99s is pretty tired. It makes being dropped into a game after the start such a crap shoot, and it really eliminates any fun for newer players or even good players on a rough team. I agree a cool down, or higher price ($1000?) or eliminating th purchase or something would do a lot to fix it.

What about a cap to the number of times you can juice in a match? I mean at some point your veins would burst right? or maybe a decaying amount of time/power on each juice?I agree that it's a great addition when you've earned it and it can be great to tip the balance. It just gets pretty ragey to see the same cats over and over, fully invincible or soon to go back to insta-full-health looping in to the base.

Hahahaha thats hilarious. +1

COD, Battlefield, MoH, etc. are field battles and the area of play is huge. Tanks/Vehicals/Knives/Headshots/Rocketspam/Grenades are in every game and avoiding them is an entirely different thing. UT, Quake, etc. what do you have? Maybe a full load of a rocket launcher, a flak in the chest, a plasma explosion, or a sniper.. and all those require some talent, particularly anything close to the enemy (aside from rocket spam). The mechanics of MNC are nothing like these games. I might give you Halo on this one tho.

Anyways I'll agree that I did overspeak about the OHOK to a degree for emphasis if you think I'm just talking about regular gameplay, but the topic of this thread is about the Juice chaining moments where everything more-or-less turns into a OHOK rampage until the game is over. Even with the Support using the heal/hurt gun or the Sniper using the mini while Juice chaining can get 5/6 kills in a matter of seconds then go repurchase Juice. Its absurd. There is absolutely no skill involved in it aside from first sorting out how to get your Juicing cycle going. Once you figure out that elementary technique (again, used very loosely), you just spam your to hearts content when enough enemies are on the field. Spam, spam, spam, spam, spam...

UT's damage multiplier might even be a good comparison for the Juice. There's typically one max per map (if the map even has one..) and it doesn't come back for 2 minutes or whatever after it's been used/grabbed. The UT Damage multiplier (or quad damage or whatever it was called in Quake) is practically identical to Juice the more you think about it except the opposing team can't all use it at the same flippin' time and string it along over and over.

Im new to the game and have been stomped on before, more than once. Im not a bad player its just normally these 99 teams come in and crush on the team. Turrets are almost so pointless to buy them some games, people dont even attempt to purchase them.

I know one possible fix without removing the option to buy juice, up the price.

Juice should be better earned by getting your kills on invading robobts, killing players, having endorsements for increase. This technically would make "doing your job" worth while. So really purchasing should be as rare so instead of $500, make it like 8,9, 1k. Youll see less players earning it through purchase, it would allow matches to not be always so one sided, it would allow players like me who just started a week ago a better chance at winning and not being stampeded. Ive had money but never have i earned juice by buying it, i try to keep turrets up at the base cause not many do lol.

If buying juice was removed, assassins, snipers, and supports would have a HUGE advantage over the other three classes. Snipers, assassins, and supports can get juice ridiculously easy. Especially the sniper, who can get juice in the first minute while sitting in his own spawn while hardly helping the team. If you took buying juice away, a tank might get juice twice all game, while a support will be getting it 6 times, easy. It would be crazy unfair.

I really like the idea of not earning money while juiced. Also, upping the price to maybe $750 sounds good to me.

I Just played some games where our team was split up so we just fooled around and killed people instead of pushing bots or hitting the ball. I was a tank on time and assault another, and was juice-chaining the whole time; it was more or less unstoppable. each time there were 2 supports huddled inside the base with their firebases along with assorted teammates and they'd all bite the dust. Rinse repeat.

So yeah... not earning money while juiced seems like a good idea.

Best idea I've heard was in a similar topic.

Incremental juice costs.

First one is 500$...next is 1000$
Just keeps going up by 500 each time you buy it.
This would effectively break the "juice chain" strat without changing the game overall too much.

I really don't see why this is a problem. To be able to juice-chain effectively, you'd pretty much have to be on an ultra streak. If you're doing that well, you should be rewarded. And if the other team is doing so poorly as to let one person juice-chain, yet alone several, then they'd have ended up losing anyway. It's really just speeding up the process.

Yes, juice chaining can get abusive.
A lot of good suggestion here. Any of them would solve the problem.

1) Cooldown timer
2) Incremental increase of juice (like turret prices)
3) Flat Increase to $1000
4) No money earned while juiced

Uber should put a poll up.

All of my friends that played MNC have quit due to the juice loop. It really pushes any other strategy to the back burner in the current state of the game. I could see a down-cycle debuff of some sort on juicing that prevents you from activating for XX seconds. The people buying juice over and over are part of it but also if an assassin has the juice perk (or even without in late game) they can earn a full juice bar in seconds.

The counter argument is that if you have better map control people can't do this...which is true to some extent. What is your team going to do with that map control? They're going to juice loop.(if they are smart)

So in the end the current state of juice(especially with the buggy health regen in juice) greatly reduces the tactical options in the game and in my opinion makes it a less fun game to play.