I've heard a ton of talk recently about the gunner...

And how he is pretty much worthless in games with experienced players.

My arguments:

All of his skills are horrible.
Slam: extremely predictable & avoidable.
Deploy: Some argue that this is the gunner's best ability, I argue it is his worst. I think it is terrible because you are extremely vulnerable, and your damage boost doesn't negate that.
Grapple: Worthless until fully upgraded and still almost no use for it once it is upgraded.

So what does that leave the gunner with?
High health: but he also has the biggest body which allows more bullets to come into contact and damage him.
Double minigun: to use this effectively, you need to be able to claw, or else you are a slow moving, easy to take out target, and it isn't really just to force people to hurt their hands to be able to compensate for horrid mobility. The assault rifle is also high damaging, seems to have a higher range and has no slow down unless aiming down sights.
Mortar: deals massive damage to turrets, but that's about it.
Single Minigun:Flying cancels out the prespin, so clawing is out of the question, you are forced to walk slowly to deal moderate damage, whereas the assault rifle can be used without flow right out of spawn.

Please keep this as a flame free discussion, I want to see every appropriate aspect to the argument.


HERPTY DERPTY DOOOO!!!; this was suppose to be in the general discussion, could one of you admin folks move this for me?

Not my favorite class either, but I'll drop some positive notes;

You can pre-spin while flying. I'm always hopping around when I'm the gunner because pre-spin + fly is quicker than pre-spin+walk. Not much, but you retain some sideways movement.

Slam = predictable, but still very dangerous.. specially if you keep high ground and surprise drop on people. Which is what many good Gunners do (top of ammo mule center, bridges on the other maps, upper areas on LazerRazor, etc).

Dual Mini = deadly as you can get in the right peoples hands. You don't need to claw or change your control scheme to be good at this.

Also, as a gunner you'll often have a Support right behind or near you. Gunners with support = d00m.

Mortar III also tears through bots and earns you cash very very quickly, which means you can then Juice and a gunner on Juice, sometimes deployed, = very deadly.

Not to mention, you got some serious long range reach with the Gunner..

Hmm. He's more defense-oriented than offense, I suppose. Assault is better for pushing because of his greater mobility and more-versatile skills, Assassin or Sniper are better at bot clearing(depending on the terrain), and IMO the big nail in the offensive Gunner coffin is that he really NEEDS his upgrades to be able to compete.

Eh, the comparison with 6v6 matches in TF2 is really really accurate here. Competitive TF2 matches(excluding Highlanders) always have two Scouts(with occasional swings to other classes in certain maps or situations), two Soldiers, a Demoman, and a Medic. All of these except the Medic can move extremely fast, the other five classes just can't compete in fast-paced battles. Pyro's always been the weakest class while his/her increasingly support-centric role isn't useful because he/she lacks both speed and offense. Heavy's only good for niche defensive efforts even with things like the GRU. Sniper's only good for niche open areas that would be easy for them to take out a Medic. Spy's just too damn obvious, any mediocre player can take out an "elite" spy without too much trouble given all his weaknesses.

Yeah. MNC's pretty much in the same boat, right? Assault and Assassin are important for pushing lanes, with Assault having lots of focus on pros as well. Tank, Gunner, and Support lack speed even though they do still possess incredible abilities. Sniper's good for helping control areas and bots, at least on some maps.




Aw, why can't there ever be better competitive balance that lets all the classes be great?

I play defensive gunner with no issues. Gunners are all about surprise and the ability to cover your butt. You really have to use the map to your advantage. When I retreat, I stay turned toward my opponent watching for them to chase. If they do chase, they get to meet Mr. Dual Chainguns.

Gunners that really know how to use a map can be a huge detriment to the enemy.

I was more so talking about this from the competitive aspect, trust me, I know almost every trick to the gunner.

When it comes down to a private game where everyone is experienced, the gunner doesn't really shine anywhere.

Gunners can do significant damage to turrets and bots. One trick a good gunner can do is launch mortars over walls with good accuracy. I know I was able to launch mortars into the enemy base. I didn't abuse that ability, but that is a fun ability to have.

As for fighting experience players, I fought GrindouT the other day, and, if I am not mistaken, he is a good MNC fighter. I was able to make him panic a few times while holding the bot lane back. It was a hard game and my team still lost, but it was fun.

That mortar is kind of like the assaults grenade launcher under rated it in's usefulness.

Not sure if Deadeye is still alive, but he never had a problem with the gunner. I think any class can be deadly depending on who is using it and that's the great thing about this game.

The slam only gets me if im not paying attention or trying to fight more than one guy, i had a guy the other day who slammed an it hit me even though he was behind 2 walls, yes two.

I find sometimes that when i play gunner my gun fully upgraded with a good build will just not deal much damage to people prob due to lag.

Yeah i know that you mean officer , especially if the opposing team has a good sniper . The gunner is just so easy to head shot I like to think of myself as a decent gunner , but against skilled opponents , they usually make me look bad lol .

You need to have your support work with you to effectively do your job. If you put yourself in advantageous situations, you can outgun assaults easily. You still have an important role and a good team will always use a gunner.
And whoever said Deadeye always does well, that's not true.

That's the problem, every other class can do their job by themselves, but the gunner needs another teammate on him to be affective.

I definitely think the minigun was over-nerfed.
But if you think about it, the gunner and support were made for each other. Support lacks firepower, gunner has the most in the game. Gunner regens health slow, support can heal him up. Support has low mobility, gunner does too so he can keep up. The gunner's biggest disadvantage is the assault, and this is mostly because of the bomb. With healing, it basically is negated.
I'm not saying anyone should Jay Liive their gunner, but stay with him and help him out.

Gunner is basically the opposite of the tank..
Tanks deploy is more defence oriented while gunner is more offence.

deploy gunner= crt/acc/health
deployed tank= health/health regen/ammo regen

Deploy is best when your trying to out duel another gunner. Just pushing the deploy button as you fire then undeploy can up your def and add crt/acc. I use it kind of like a draw shootout. First one to do it can kill. Also using deploy will stop any grapples/charges/dashes.

His slam is predicable but its best use is crowds of bots and stopping juiced players. Gunner has a double grapple which eleminates bouncers in seconds and level 3 = easy ring outs.

Motar is great if you know how to aim it correctly but rate of fire is recommended in a build.

He is a pro killer but I've used him in blitz mode and he can be effective with slams/grapples/deployed shots. Also think deploy prevents death on ejectors?? not too sure.

why do people think you need to claw to play gunner again? what actions are easier performed this way?

Freedom to jet pack and aim with 100% normal accuracy at the same time. Most players hav halfassed aim while jet packing due to having to take your thumb off the stick and to the A button.

On pc, Every player can effectively accomplish what only clawing players can on consoles, which is why there is now a cooldown mechanism on the jet pack.

oh ok that makes sense. guess it didn't occur to me because i main assault and his jetpack has an on/off switch.

Using deploy is a deathwish in competitive games. You will be sniped, headcrabbed, ground zero'd, jet gunned from behind or just piled before you can even finish killing the other person you go against.

LoL. Considering you run anytime you see me, I'm not really worried about you saying that.

and clawing is only using the controller more effectively.

i play juri a bit on ssf4. her projectile-into-combos require you to hold down buttons all over the place, while pressing other buttons between it all. so what if you hafta claw, you get 1/3 health combos.