Jables recent update post mentions that subs are coming soon. Was hoping we could make a thread with balance suggestions and ideas before it's released to PTE. I really like the naval balance in TA, subs beat destroyers 1v1 unless the destroyer was microed in circles around the sub so the torpedoes missed. The sub had a built in sonar similar to its range. This meant that if the enemy hadn't sonar you could sneak the sub past enemy destroyers into their economy by putting them on hold fire. Trying to implement a similar style in PA without the micro of the destroyer part could work: Bombers unable to attack the underwater layer. New t2 torpedo plane. Give subs and destroyers an equal 1v1. Subs only detectable by sonar. Enemy units can't attack unless vision or being attacked by the sub. Sub a little slower than the destroyer. The speed difference is grand in TA. What you guys think. How can we seperate the layers to give subs a nice integration?
Destroyer must kill sub in 1 vs 1 battle without any micro i think. Subs should be impossible to hurt for units without torpedos.Its their "main advantage".And their speed should be not less than 7. "Micro" with destroyers in PA no more than fantastic fairytale anyway.
My first thought about subs would be: a) fast b) hard to detect c) not attackable without torpedos d) glas cannons Out to hit and run vs valuable targets.
"Peekaboo" is not funny in most part video games.I played with really hard detect subs in some TA mods and i don't sure that its possible for Ubers add this in such game as PA with good balance.But sonar in addition to radar not bad idea.
The way I see it for subs is fairly simple: 1) Torpedo bomber instead of giving bombers the ability to kill subs. 2) Make subs invisible to radar 3) Sonar that can detect ships and subs, and has a longer range than radar. 4) Subs have a shorter range than most ships 5) But they are faster to compensate 6) *glass cannon mentality*
I defense of the Pelter being able to target subs: There is this really irritating situation you can get into where your opponent has a bunch of T1 subs parked off your coast preventing you from getting a naval factory up. There needs to be some T1 way of attacking these subs without having a naval factory. To me, there seems to be three choice being considered: 1) Let T1 bombers attack subs. As others have already mentioned, that's not a great choice. 2) Make a T1 torpedo plane. A torpedo bomber at T1 would mean you have two different sorts of bomber to balance between, and the specialized nature of a torpedo bomber seems to me to fit better in T2. 3) Give the Pelter the ability to target underwater. I think this is the best solution. It lets you clear out subs on your coast without going into water, and it even gives the poor Pelter more value. Ideally the Pelter when shooting into water would have a underwater explosion type effect to make what is happening more clear:
I think this makes sense - but then surely you'd need an airborne sonar at T1 as well for this to work? If you're not able to get naval up, then you'd probably be unlikely to get a sonar going for long enough either. I feel like a combined sonar/bomber aircraft might work slightly better, but still allow the Pelter to damage subs as well - probably at reduced damage, I'd imagine. As you say, a torp bomber is very specialised though.
As I understood it the stealth of the sub would only hide it from radar. You would still be able to see the sub if it were in vision range.
Setting aside my annoyance on principle that submersibles don't actually properly submerge underwater... I like that artillery should be able to do damage to things like subs. It's not like they are small calibre ammunition or explosives. Also I don't think torpedo bombers being specialised as as big a deal as people might think. After all a torpedo bomber attacks everything that is in the water. If it's a water map then torpedo bombers are a necessary thing. Particularly if you're being surrounded by subs and have no reliable way to both defend and expand without building naval yourself. Lastly, the whole stealth from radar/sonar/ thing can be fixed by giving torpedo bombers short ranged sonar capacity. Either in the plane, or you have vision/radar vision of whatever naval unit the torpedo has locked onto. Something like that or a variation? I don't want torpedo bombers to replace a static sonar building. But I do want them to have some temporary passive awareness of enemy naval. Maybe when the torpedo drops into the water, you get 1-2 seconds of sonar vision for the area? Things to think about.
Missile units like the T2 bomber and Catapult doubling as missile "torpedoes" against subs seems like an elegant solution. As for stealth, having subs hide from radar but still be visible could work... but it still doesn't solve the problem of engagement ranges and torpedo launchers/etc. chewing them up automatically on sight. Subs could perhaps be the water equivalent of sniper bots by giving them greater range, but easily thwarted by sending something over to wreck them. In an insane twist, however, what if the small boats - fabbers and scouts - were immune to torpedoes?
The sub towers sticking out of the water actually looks really cool to me. They are like little u-boats.
