Insomnia Balance

Discussion in 'Mod Discussions' started by robomoo, September 22, 2017.

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  1. robomoo

    robomoo Member

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    This is the balance mod used in Clan Wars and Clan League, designed by all the participating clan leaders (currently icycalm, Elite Sardaukar, Diskraip and Furballman), and put together by me.

    Bitbucket repo: https://bitbucket.org/Robomoo/insomnia-balance/
    Development thread: http://culture.vg/forum/topic?t=5843

    Current change list:
    -Gil-E main weapon range increased from 180 to 220
    -Tyr orbital titan added from Legion
    -Orbital fabbers can no longer build non-orbital titans
    -Anchor's build bar icon changed to deep blue and the T2 icon has been added to it
    -Leveler metal cost increased from 600 to 700

    Lots more changes coming. For news on those, as well as the reasoning behind all the changes, keep an eye on the thread I linked.
  2. recoil345

    recoil345 Active Member

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    One more change since the above:
    -The metal costs of all T2 factories (including orbital) have increased by 75%.

    And the mod is now on CMM. More details here: http://culture.vg/forum/topic?p=29821#p29821

    This is what your lobbies will look like with this mod enabled:

    [​IMG]
  3. recoil345

    recoil345 Active Member

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    Continued from here: https://forums.uberent.com/threads/insomnia-battle-royale.72616/#post-1144065

    It's also worth noting that the balance is developed by the actual participants, who vote on it. Or at least the clan leaders who represent their players. Ours is the only democratically-developed balance, as far as we know. It's not icycalm who makes it. It's icycalm and Elite and Diskraip and Furballman, and all their teammates, for a total of dozens of players: some of the best and most dedicated players in the game today. Any other clan leader who participates in our events is also welcome to jump in and start suggesting changes, and we'll put them to vote like all the rest: http://culture.vg/forum/topic?t=5843

    It is true that the BR event is different from the rest, in that it will include independent players, but the only reason the other events don't include indies is performance: CW1 had indies, but we stopped admitting them after because mikey explained that 1 indie=4 team players, in terms of performance, and we'd rather take the 4 over the 1. Eventually, once server tech allows it, we will reintroduce indies in the Clan Wars, but the balance will always be decided by the clan leaders, because they are the ones who support the event week-in week-out, and who bring the majority of the players (and the majority of the good players) and so they are the ones who matter most. Indies are welcome, but dispensable, and all you need to do to attract dozens of them is open up the lobby.
    Last edited: October 5, 2017
  4. exterminans

    exterminans Post Master General

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    Since someone on your forum was wondering about what the difference between the beam-like and the previously used projectile-like weapon actually is:

    It is not just the virtually instant hit (instant within 60 range, 0.3s for full 180 range). It also omits terrain collision checks, so it can fire through mountain ranges and cliffs and planet curvature. Which means it's 220 units of effective range regardless of terrain.

    "allow_underground": true on the physics properties of the projectile.
    Last edited: October 8, 2017
  5. exterminans

    exterminans Post Master General

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    A balance which leans more to T1 instead of T2 is not exactly going to help with sim performance. If anything, it's delaying the progression from T1 to T2, respectively from T2 to Titan. Which naturally results in T1 hordes which directly impacts sim performance.

    That is not exactly what you would want for a 32 player Battle Royale. T2/Titan progression is mostly in this game for saving the sim performance, as large T1 blobs can't be handled performance wise.

    If it had been possible, even Uber would most likely had preferred a T1 general purpose / T2 specialization split, but there was a need to consolidate power in less units in late game, so T2 instead became a substitute, on purpose. And Titans are once again substituting T2.

    Adding the Tyr: Well, why not?
    But the balance changes to the Leveler, build restrictions and factory costs? Counterproductive for all performance related aspects.
  6. recoil345

    recoil345 Active Member

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  7. exterminans

    exterminans Post Master General

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    Not going to bother commenting on a 3rd party forum which might go down at some point anyway. Keep the discussions on the PA forums, or consider them to be treated as unrelated chatter. ;)

    Not to mention that that analysis is inconclusive or just straight out wrong. Processors are mostly scaling horizontally, in favor of more cores. The PA engine doesn't scale so well in that dimension, but only scales with IPC and core frequency. That's maybe a 10% improvement you can expect per year, in terms of CPU performance which is actually usable by PA.

    Besides, once the sim speed is dropping, it's entirely too late. Because at this point, even the safe guards have failed. The playability of the game already degrades long before this point, as the safe guards/limits become active one by one.

    The first obvious effect of too many players/squads is a degradation in the quality of the path finding solutions, as there is a global cap per planet for how many voxels are evaluated per frame for path finding. Too many individual squads, and units fall back to following a straight line and running into obstacles on their way.
    Last edited: October 8, 2017
    NikolaMX, wpmarshall and flubbateios like this.
  8. recoil345

    recoil345 Active Member

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    If you want to know why we consider your advice bad, and won't be taking it, the answer is in that thread.

    If you want to continue posting off-topic comments in this thread, I guess you can continue doing it since the moderators are not going to stop you.
    Last edited: October 8, 2017
  9. recoil345

    recoil345 Active Member

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    Fun fact: Insomnia was founded in 2005. Uberent in 2008.

    If some forum goes down, it won't be the Insomnia one.
  10. eyhey34

    eyhey34 Member

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    I do not see how age matters in terms of chances of shutting down. Besides, Uberent clearly has no intention in shutting down anything pa related given that they took over the hosting of palobby servers.
  11. diskraip

    diskraip New Member

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    As far as I know, the path search in the PA is in a separate thread, which means that horizontal scaling will help in this. Also, although an increase in the cost of T2 leads to an increase in the number of T1 units, this is only true until the middle of the game, because then all of them already have enough T2 factories and enough resources, and the difference in cost ceases to affect the number of T1 units. And basically we start to see T2 units.
  12. exterminans

    exterminans Post Master General

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    Yes, it is a separate thread. It is one of the components which scale, if I remember correctly only one thread per planet though. The limit still applies, especially because this part scales and can get out of control depending on user actions.

    This one is actually configurable, it's in /media/pa/specs/nav.json, "voxel_world_integration_budget". This limit is mostly in place to protect shared servers (like the ones hosted by Uber) against intentional overload. Can't be set by a server mod, but needs to be modified manually directly on the server. Especially AI players love to exhaust this limit with their micro managed squads.

    There might be also be a few other hard coded limits, where the engine will no longer make optimal decisions once close to overload. If I remember correctly, none of these are exposed or configurable. Physics (for unit collisions) is another candidate to break down if players are pushing T1 too much. Recon won't start bugging, but it also becomes a major factor with an increasing number of players.
    Last edited: October 8, 2017
  13. mikeyh

    mikeyh Post Master General

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    Take another look at:
  14. icycalm

    icycalm Post Master General

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    Just popping in to point out that the SMNC forum disappeared.

    [​IMG]
    Last edited: June 17, 2018
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