[Insert complaint here] - JUST BE BETTER!

This is a point of irritation for me. It doesn't matter what game is involved; any competitive forum I ever see always disregards any complaints anyone ever has about their game. There is always one universal response: the game is not in error, you are in error and simply need to get better. It's certainly the case here. A person's skill level is usually not the point, and it's unfortunate that many are missing that. There is a big difference between these two types of statements, one which will I hope to make clear.
The state of mind that is definitely with many here is of competition. You think about whatever you have to do in order to win, regardless of how "fair" it is. I absolutely know how this is. Once the game starts, it is your responsibility to do whatever you believe will best influence your chances of victory.
The other state of mind is outside the game, evaluating what it should be. I don't care what game is being discussed; no game is perfect. If such a game existed, there'd be no need for the variety of games that exist. As Uber Entertainment has demonstrated, they are very much interested in issues of game balance, as any game designer should be. There are always tactics and strategies that are more powerful than others, sometimes even dominating. Although I will adopt anything that I think will let me win, I am certainly conscious enough to evaluate whether I should be allowed to do certain things. If Icemen had an instant-win button for little to no risk and Hotshots did not, I'd absolutely go for it almost every time. However, that makes the game neither interesting nor balanced.
Making "you suck" the default response to any frustration expressed is simply trolling, even if it's intended to be a genuine response. Keep that in mind the next time you read someone complaining about something in this game. If someone complains about certain tactics, strategies, the nature of certain characters, bots, etc., a more practical (and welcomed) response would be to explain how such things are countered. The worst-case scenario would be if someone is making a complaint about something core to the game or an overall statement. In such a case, I just bring up that this game is what it is, to change certain aspects would change the game entirely, and that such an individual may as well find another game.

In closing, yes I am attempting to limit your speech. I am hoping to increase the level of respect and decrease the level of trolling. Nobody can get better if they don't know how to do so. Sometimes that means practicing certain techniques, a physical skill which nobody can aid. Sometimes it means learning what they are, which is precisely the point of a forum like this. Bear that in mind. Thank you.

T_T cant stand to read this much your so mean to my brain lol

It gets to a point where this is no longer funny.

That aside, I do fully agree with the OP. Statements such as "get better" in no way contribute to the person, this forum, or the game.

This is a good post Organous and one I think everyone should read. I agree wholeheartedly.

But you do realize that the people who respond with "learn your class noob" or "you are just whining because you suck" or "get better" are not the type of people who are going to read any more than 3 lines of text. Meaning that, sadly, the people who need to read your post the most probably won't.

You don't understand the point of my post, then.

Anyway, the community would be much better if people complimented each other. Just last night I was playing MW2 and my party got put against a really good sniper (no not a quickscoping nerd) and 5 randoms in S&D. He went 11-3 (even though most of our party did better xD) and I called him a beast and said he knows how to use a scope, then he said thanks, etc. and I felt good.

EDIT: But there is a time when "getting better" is the only option. You will eventually just have to play more and learn from your own stupid mistakes.

The chan-lulz type are not my target. They are beyond any hope of redemption. My intended audience are the people that don't realize what they're doing. Thank you, though. It's nice to see this view is appreciated.

agreed. on a similar note, i think that there should be a little more strict action by the moderators. not to fault uber in any way, but i was part of a game forum a while back, and i found them to be more strict than your usual gaming forum. i ALSO found that there was almost NO trolling, flaming, etc in that forum, and you could carry out full, 10-20 page conversations with the community and not have the topic derailed. something to consider, and as i said, not in any way faulting uber.

Paragraphs plz.

There are times when factoring skill into the picture is relevant:

Examples:
-All Gunner Teams Can't be beat
-Firebases are overpowered
-We lost a game in overtime despite being ahead in regulation

There are also times where people make statements based solely on solo play experience instead of team skill/synergy in a team based objective game. We've also had threads which kept calling classes underpowered yet ONLY focused on the PVP aspect of the game.
Skill is certainly relevant in these discussions.

But yes, simply stating get better without stating HOW to get better, is not helpful at all.

EDIT: This post is no longer relevant.

exactly. there is a HUGE difference between:
"get better"
and
"try flanking the assault, go up the jump pad and kill him from behind."

Your post could go both ways though. Should the assassin have an overpowered dagger lunge? Using this as an example, I know there were plenty of assassins before the update who were considered "good", and a few who actually were good. After the update many of the less-skilled ones complained quite a bit and the ones I saw that were good flourished. Sometimes you do have to adapt your play style to be good at the game. Many games out there are pretty n00b-friendly and everything seems balanced out of the box, but some games are a little tougher to conquer. Uber isn't going to respond every time someone whines or can't play smart.

Deconstruction.

It's a state of mind. In my opinion there are four levels of skill, all are pretty drastically separate.


1: Outright incompetent. You do not understand what you're doing or your perception is bad enough so that you cannot compensate(e.g. under the effects of strong drugs or experiencing ridiculous lag). If a fragile enemy is standing still, not shooting, right in front of a player that it's outright incompetent they will likely die.

2: Near competence. You understand the basics of the game and maybe even have memorized a map or two, but nothing beyond basic and predictable with only the lightest hint of tactics beyond "aim up to compensate for a weapon's arc."

3: Competent. You use lots of excellent reactions to situations and occasionally try to predict things or throw opponents curveballs, but not often.

4: Freak. You play the game so much you can lob an arced projectile across a map at a possible route of retreat and get a direct hit on an enemy and regularly employ prediction to a very pragmatic(and deadly) effect.


The lower the number, the more common the player type.



The thing is, this "don't suck" troll/argument is an easy way for moderately skilled players(tier 2 or tier 3) to insult lesser skilled players. Skill is...

experience + perception x analytical ability x reaction = skill

Experience and knowledge supplement everything, perception and reaction speed determine the limits of what you can do in a digital medium, and analytical ability helps push you just a little bit further by trying to figure out what the other players are doing on both teams.

Perception, reaction speed, and how much/well you're analyzing things are all in your head and related to a crapload of neurological, psychological, and biological things you should probably ask someone that knows about these things instead of me(since I'm clearly no expert).

Experience makes all of that easier, giving players comfort and confidence when they know things like what weapon to shoot a moneyball with or what that guy is doing based upon the indication of skill level he displayed.



tl;dr version: "Don't suck" more often than not is just trolling, but there is most certainly a basis in reality for it. Now if only the people stating it were good enough to justify their usage...

Indeedy do. Captain Hindsight tells us that it makes more sense to try giving people tips like "read the ProTips" and "watch for them to reload" instead.

That's how it goes. Same thing for FAQs, guides, and stickied topics. The people that need it the most won't read it.

I think these two snippets are the entire problem with most gamers. In one regard we are playing a competitive game in which the ultimate objective is to win. In the other we have the concept of fair play. Sadly, most modern gamers have no concept of what 'fair' means ergo if everyone can do it, it must be fair.

In the second snippet the OP acknowledges that the instant-win button is not balanced but yet they wholeheartedly admit that they would use it "almost every time." So we have this divide where morally the player knows what they are doing is wrong, or at least unfair, but do not care as they will never be held accountable for their actions.

Sad, truly.

I'd love to respond to this, but I think it would just end up derailing the subject. I think I'll make a thread dealing with this particular issue in the Off-Topic forum.

Original post was too long.

I think the OP needs to "get better" at posting on forums.

Advice for posting in the future (so that way my post has value) = make shorter.

Or the forums members could "get better" at basic reading. The OP made a great post, too bad you missed it.

hi organous i've played with you a lot and i think you're a good player. hugz

Bah, I edited it for value, but you already quoted. Seriously, though. These threads about how not everyone gets along are ridiculous. I see far more posts about people not getting along then actual troll attempts. It's a forum on the internet, lets not take this too serious.

I've read and reread your post a few times and it angries up my blood because of the basic premise of your post. I will word this carefully and do my best not to sound like I am simply trolling because in my heart of hearts, I am not. I do have a certain shoot from the hip style that comes off as trolling I will admit.

Anyhow on point. You thread is aim at the people who argue back to anything as "learn your class noob" or "try sucking less," we all see that. My problem is I typically fall back on to those arguments when I see new threads popping up about previously discussed topics. How many "overtime sucks," "bunny hopping is annoying," "juicing is overpowered," or "spawn camping is cheap" threads do we need? I believe there are at least 2 of each of those thread, and then many more that are a combination of "I can't kill the juiced bunny hopping support on the top ring when he rushes for over time" threads as well. I am certain if we could encourage new posters to the forum to read through threads that have already been posted on which ever complaint they have we wouldn't have to keep going through this.

Perhaps when a new thread over an exist topic is made, if the mods (I know they are busy designing additions to the game) could simply merge the thread to the existing then other people wouldn't have knee jerk replies of "learn your class noob." I believe we need a move on both sides of the aisle here if we want a change for the better.