How the **** do you counter... (Gw/BH+S)

... a Gunner, bunny hopping, with a support healing him all the time?

Christ, snipers can't hit because he's hopping like mad and using the bots for cover when he's down. And he destroys anyone trying to focus fire on him at pretty much all ranges. Only way to hit him faster is to use a lot of direct AoE. Sadly, only kind of that stuff we have is airstrikes and bombs, and good luck getting a head crab with those because he'll just run away if the airstrike misses, and the bombs won't kill him outright. Nobody can approach to grapple him because of A) the bots and B) his massive DPS.

Combine this example in particular with Spunky Arena, and woo(!) Plenty of fun abound(!) The game only ended when overtime started, after which we still couldn't push forward and was shut out the ENTIRE game as a result.

Quick and easy (more) sensible solution perhaps: Force the gunner to be on the ground to fire miniguns. Somehow. Mortars might not be as bad, since we could try to approach then, but firebases, bots and the rest of the team would still be a huge problem.

At the moment it seems that if gunners and supports realise this everywhere you're gonna have a very, very wrong-looking version of MNC going on. Relying on having a good sniper (or a hacking one) to take him down in other arenas sounds too much of a crapshoot.

Re: How the **** do you counter... (Gw/BH+S)

Supports can't heal themselves. Kill/Damage them first.

Re: How the **** do you counter... (Gw/BH+S)

On Spunky they just hid behind their "wall" on their half of the arena, with a constant supply of bots, turrets and firebases covering him (Lvl 3s no less healing him) so he couldn't be hit by 5/6 of us, and the assassin would have been pasted all over the walls instantly if she tried to grapple him. You'd have to sneak a sniper over to the other end of the arena to get a shot at him. :/

EDIT: Then again, I just realised Spunky is HORRIBLE for snipers doing anything but playing purely defensively, and there's virtually no alternative routes to speak off since they just lead to MORE heat.

Combine this with almost 80% of servers I CAN join (being in the EU) going with "No Juice Buying", and that's a stalemate till OT from the looks of it.

Man, I actually hate people turning off juice buying. Don't cry imba when it's that or sitting there constantly sieged and unable to score juice without dying if you're not the one god-like constantly healed entity on the field.

Re: How the **** do you counter... (Gw/BH+S)

That combo is strong, you'll need at least 2-3 players working together to take them out. Seems fair to me. Take out most of the bots first of course.

Re: How the **** do you counter... (Gw/BH+S)

Best counter to gunner + support? Another gunner + support

Re: How the **** do you counter... (Gw/BH+S)

ummmm.... Sniper RoF gold can kill a gunner faster than the support can heal him, also the sniper can headshot the gunner. Doesn't matter if their bunny hopping, a good sniper will still headshot his fat head. A juiced assassin can take care of everything you described, anyone can actually.

Re: How the **** do you counter... (Gw/BH+S)

For some reason his dual miniguns was enough to constantly waste us, and the support (presumably with RoF endorsement) pretty much soaked any damage he COULD be hit by, all the rest of it blowing up around him/past him being mostly indirect fire.

Although of course it didn't help that for some stupid reason Spunky spawns practically ENDLESS bouncers that just kept on clogging up the bot lanes and alternative paths, either getting surprise grapples or buying the gunner time to waste us, juice or non, whenever we tried to attack.

Of course, there's all the problem in that no-one communicates right now, though at the moment it's also practically impossible. No voice chat, poor text chat (fades too fast and is too small) and VoIP is constantly drowned out by everything since it's tied to the Master Volume.

Re: How the **** do you counter... (Gw/BH+S)

Lol, have you tried to headshot anything that bounces around all over the place? Not to mention some serious LoS breaks on Spunky plus he could either hug behind his wall or the other side of our wall and be out of sight of snipers.

Top that off, no, a juiced assassin couldn't deal with that easily because most servers are running without juice buying, and she can't grind on bots because they keep clogging up in the middle with bouncers and heavy crossfire. Plus she could have either wrecked some turrets or take out the combo, either way Spunky is too small and linear for her to get out, and in the time they would take to respawn they'd recover whatever one of those two defences they had right away. :/

Re: How the **** do you counter... (Gw/BH+S)

While it's much easier to excel with the gunner/support combo, a well-played tank can take care of the pair. Snipers are also an outstanding counter, missing headshots isn't a good reason. When you come up against a gunner/support pair that are both controlled by good players you will almost always get steamrolled if you're playing without a team. It's just a really noticeable example of solid teamwork, but it is definitely counterable. It's never going to be as easy as rock-paper-scissors in this game as far as counters go.

Re: How the **** do you counter... (Gw/BH+S)

Mikey, im on one of the few good teams in MNC xbox 360, I recently bought the PC version and its all the same except for some tweaks in balance issues on the PC. When I say balance, I mean the sniper has 5 bullets with ammo clip endorsment as bronze, which is crappy compared to the 7 bullets with no ammo clip endorsment on the xbox, also the freeze traps still last 4-5 secs and not 2 secs like on the PC version. I play sniper and one of the best assaults in MNC for my team. I think I know what im talking about when I say that the Support + Gunner combo is complete crap. So easily countered, but you guys would wanna make the game less hard and more easy for your classes. It's called a strategy, strategies have counters, figure it out.

Re: How the **** do you counter... (Gw/BH+S)

Hey i think i have played a few games with you on gunner. You are pretty easy to follow as a support even while you outmaneuver everything.

Re: How the **** do you counter... (Gw/BH+S)

Kappy, so would you say that classes are fairly balanced in PC version and any class that looks OP is due to random pub scenarios?

Re: How the **** do you counter... (Gw/BH+S)

Not all the classes are completely equal and fair, but put urself in the devs shoes. You know how much work it takes to please everyone on the forums and try to balance all the characters? The fact that some classes look OP to other classes is because its most likely their counter class in the game. It also may be the issue of the players. A lot of players think characters are OP after versing fairly good players and complain about it afterwards, but if the bad players (new players) would take the time to learn their class or the one thats been owning them, they would have more fun and wouldnt think of it as OP as much. For example, when I player sniper, I never go 1 on 1 with an assault player that gets to close or any class at that matter but the assault is the snipers weak point. Thus seeing why I play both sniper and assault. Now that I know how to play assault and how they move about, I can be a better sniper.

Re: How the **** do you counter... (Gw/BH+S)

While I may be somewhat drunk from new years celebrations, what I will say is I'm not an idiot:

I don't "main" a particular class except one that isn't listed; I play the "Team" class.

Even if I'm rolling as a particular character the whole time e.g. Tank, I'm not so narrowminded that I think only as a tank, I think as all the classes simultaneously so as to figure out a plan and relay it to the appropiate class in my team.

Unfortunately communication is weak, and this combo still seems pretty absurd. If you HAVE to be in a competitive envrionment to counter such a simple combo, you know the balance is off if pubbers can't deal with it. Pubstomps ad infinite anyone?

Re: How the **** do you counter... (Gw/BH+S)

Pubs will get owned by a pair of skilled players regardless of which classes those two select. When two players equal a third (or more) of a team, those two players will have a major influence over the course of the game.

Re: How the **** do you counter... (Gw/BH+S)

Your not understanding what im saying...I'm saying, get a party together or team if u have to or get some individual skill to counter it. I mean obviously if that strategy is happening, they have a party of 2 or some communication going, so its only fair to get someone you can talk to in their.

Re: How the **** do you counter... (Gw/BH+S)

If you're having a problem with one pair imagine 2 or more?! Just because it is powerful doesn't mean that it's overpowered. A Gunner "on a leash" is easy to counter.

If players are able to headshot bunny hopping Pros on the 360 I am sure it's much more possible on the PC.

Re: How the **** do you counter... (Gw/BH+S)

Finally someone understands, thank you deadstretch

Re: How the **** do you counter... (Gw/BH+S)

good luck with helping the PC community on here i have given up

Re: How the **** do you counter... (Gw/BH+S)

I would suggest - situationally, obviously - a support's airstrike applied at the same time as an assassin's strike. If the Assassin can secure a grab on the Support, the Gunner can now either choose to stop the grapple, but will be killed by the airstrike if he does. (Actually, odds are the assassin will lock the Support into your friendly airstrike either way with the grapple animation.)

If the Gunner flees, you've now got the support killed and a Gunner probably unprepared for solo work; take the critical ground away from him.

The key in beating any "Support + X" combo is to kill the support first. It's the Support's job to make other people invincible. Take him out of the picture, or he'll do his job.