Gunners.....still......really?

Just wanna start out by saying I've brought atleast a dozen co- ex-pro circuit l4d2 players to buy and play this game over the months. Nearly all of them, though, are pretty fed up with this game.

There is one sole reason for this. Gunner.

I know this will probably start all kinds of flames and trolling, but seriously. Gunner is still OP as all hell. The damage output is insane. You get spotted, your more than likely gone. Unable to do anything from the distance, let alone in the mere milliseconds it takes to destroy you.

This is without even the use of any damage output boosting endorsements.

In a game of rock paper scissors, he is dynamite. The only classes that can argueably neutralize them recently all had their life pools (from armor) nerfed hard. This just made things even worse.

I'm sure you guys must have a way of tracking stats, and honestly you should take a look at the gunner numbers, cause even bad* gunners can destroy, you can't say that about any other class. Literally the only thing they dont obliterate in seconds are bots, and even then they aren't much slower.

I went 99 on xbox and then some, then 99 like twice in beta on pc, and I am almost 99 again on retail. Frankly it wasnt a huge issue on xbox, but on pc it has'nt been pretty. It's only continued to get more outrageous. The class is balanced in every regard honestly, other than sheer output. The rate at which he can just completely vaporize is just too high is all.

So there you have it. Just thought out of respect for a great game I should at least leave it out there as to why I, and atleast my friends, are all seriously about ready to bail on this title. You guys have been great with your patch consistancy and brilliant in your changes, I hope you guys take this into consideration cause it seriously seems to be the most out of whack element in the game.

On a better note, those light maps a while back are just....brilliant...just...man you guys have style, i love it.

How to kill a Gunner that isn't twitchy as all hell:
1) Play Assassin
2) Sneak behind him
3) Decloak
4) Charge
5) Backstab

Unless he's packing armor (and in my experience, very few, if any, do so), he's toast. If he's not quite dead, bunny hop to avoid the slam/countergrapple and swing away as his face. Done. Armor endorsement nerfs haven't made it too much harder, if at all.

Don't stand in front of a Gunner. Problem solved.

Rail Gun Tank, Assault, and Sniper counter him hard. Obviously if you walk right next to him you're toast, Uber even tells you "Dual miniguns are something pros don't want pointed at them". The Minigun's damage over range is incredibly poor, and he is slow, with no area denial or movement skills. You just have to, well... Think.

I don't think your playing against gunners the right way. Gunners arguebly have three worthless skills that do not require $$ spent on them. Gunners are weak at a range, as the minigun has damage drop-off the further it goes. Plus the mini-gun is very inaccurate.

Few ways to counter him->
Assault->Bomb him out of the arena, use the GL he's a large target.
Tank->Use the railgun at long range, if you can surprise a gunner you can take him out with a lvl 3 charge+jetgun.
Sniper->Gunner is the easiest target to hit as a sniper.
Assassin->Those stars do a hella lot of damage, use those against gunners.
Support->at close range, catching a gunner by surprise will be beneficial as shotgun>unrevved minigun. At far range toss airstrikes.

I think that's everyone. Yes, I know taking out an overhealed gunner is very difficult but can still be done. Use his slow speed to your advantage, getting the headshots, headcrabbing, ground zeroing, railgunning.

Never really had a lot of trouble dealing with Gunners
If you catch them by surprise before they can spin up the Minigun, they'll go down fairly easy, long range a bit harder if they're good with the triple-mortar

Tank: Start burning them, if they turn to start shooting, have Charge up to 3 and ram them followed by more burning(don't use the deathblossom)
Long range, lob ProductGrenade, use the Railgun and watch your arse for the mortars(this one is a big gamble)

Assassin: Never try to face them head-on. If Cloak is lvl3, use the cloak-crit with the ShurikenLauncher, you'll take out a huge chunk of health.
If you want to grapple them, you have to be damn sneaky to get that backgrapple, a frontgrapple is just asking to be killed

Assault: Catch them by surprise and keep your AR trained on them. If they don't have their Minigun spunup, there's a good chance you'll hammer enough bullets into them that you'll come up on top
Longrange just start lobbing grenades their direction and try to predict their movements

Sniper: Keep your distance and keep sniping. If you're lucky you can finish a Gunner off close range with a combo of the SMG and Flak

Support: Don't even try long range, Support has almost nothing fast enough to take out a Gunner at range. Close range, that shotgun is deadly as it can kill even a Gold armor'd Gunner within 3-4 shots(point blank the shotgun does 27x15 damage, total 405)

I get about an 80-85% success rate with a sword charge+frontgrapple+hops/swings vs Gunners. As long as you get in their face with very little to no damage, they have a hard time dealing enough damage to kill you before you finish them as long as you don't get grappled/slammed.

That's the thing, a lot of people are going to get grappled/slammed, especially if they haven't figured out all the nuances of Assassin.
Also why I suggested the shurikens from range, not as effective, but keeps you farther from harm

Gunners are fine and you are better off the more they use the minigun.

Que?

Also, never approach a grapple from behind while cloaked, the hum gives it away every time.

Gunner is OP when being pocket healed by a support. He is probably the most effective class to simply latch onto as a support.

But by himself? His mortar is a little too good at taking out turrets but other than that he is pretty much fine.

The damage to turrets can be excessive, but only with high rate of fire endorsements. But...


They're slow.
They have the worst regen in the game.
They're a large target.
They need to spin up the minigun before it becomes effective.
Their reload time is the longest in the game.
With the mortar equipped, they cannot switch to their minigun in time to fend off a close range assault.
The slam can be easily predicted in most cases and properly avoided by pressing the spacebar.
He lacks any true offensive offensive abilities besides his own weapons.
He requires constant line of sight for everything but mortar, which has its own defensive problems.
He stands stock still during deploy


Find a way to exploit any of those weaknesses as your class, and it's not impossible to take out a gunner. Ignore them, and you're setting yourself up for failure.

I've been pasted really quickly from non spun up single mini gunners before and at other times they seem to do nothing even if they are shooting for a while. Maybe it's a lag issue but to be on the safe side you have to "kick some back" as much as possible.

They are the worst designed class in the game IMO. Everything other than building passive first is a trap choice.

IMO instead of a grapple he should sprout jet wings, fly in the air for a little ways and drop mortar bomblets. No joke. Deploy slowdown is annoying for the same reason Nastacha was annoying. I'm thinking it should be a mini uber that disables weapons and prevents all damage and lets the Gunner waddle away.

GO GO GADGET COPTER

Eh, can't help it.

The grapple is pretty bad simply because he doesn't have the speed to put it to effective use.

Probably for the best since it is the most damaging skill in the game except for headcrabs and airstrikes. It's still a sorry excuse for a grapple. It's really only useful against assassins that pull of a facestab instead of a backstab or supports that get too close for their own good, and unless they're not armor endorsed, you won't even kill the support anyway. Snipers will be surrounded by traps and hear your stupidly loud footsteps, assaults fly, and you'll only supply tanks and other gunners with a means of transportation if they are stupid enough to let you get close without slamming or charging.

Not very many people agree with you OP so chances are, you are doing something wrong.

i like the gunner grapple

one of the ways people fight gunners effectively is to get right up in their face so that they have a really hard time seeing. Grapple fixes that pretty good. Also good for when you're caught with your pants down reloading the mini.

It's also incredibly quick for taking out bouncers. A must-have for me on Spunky Arena


Still, it is silly to upgrade anything before maxing passive.



As far as him being overpowered..
Consider if the gunner is at the same skill level as everyone around him. When everyone sucks, the gunner is king. When everyone is very good, the gunner is dead meat.

He has some incredibly strengths, yes, but he also has huge weaknesses. Good assaults and snipers can exploit those weaknesses until any gunner runs home crying.

I play every class, and the only time I fear seeing an enemy gunner is when I'm also playing gunner

Fixed that for you.

am i the only person that seems to love gunner grapple? its so funny to get more kills then an assassin just by grappling (10+ grapples in 1 game on that silly assassin who wondered why face stabs didn't kill me but that only works on bad players) oh but it is great for juiced people, damage and the gtfo factor

Not to mention the Gunner is one of the Pros who have three CC abilities for Juiced players. Slam, Grapple and Mortar Grapple.