Grenadier>Ant :(

Discussion in 'Balance Discussions' started by Pieman90, June 7, 2015.

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Grenadier Nerf?

Poll closed June 14, 2015.
  1. Yes, and buff the ants

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. Yes, but don't buff the ants

    4.0%
  3. No

    96.0%
  4. No, but buff the ants

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Pieman90

    Pieman90 Active Member

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    The grenadier is faster, has greater range, greater sight and almost the same dmg as ant do. In order for tanks to be worth the metal this needs to change asap.

    Changes I suggest:
    Grenadiers do less splash and move slower than tanks
    Tanks get a slight speed boost and range boost

    Sources: unit database and testing
    2015-06-06_00001.jpg 2015-06-06_00002.jpg
    Credit to @g0hstreaper for noticing this
  2. stuart98

    stuart98 Post Master General

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    Grenadiers are one hit by anything that's not a dox while ants are 3 hit by ants and four hit by grens. It's fine.
  3. Crembels

    Crembels Member

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    Grenadiers are many things, but 'OP vs tanks' isn't one of them :p
    warrenkc, FSN1977, wilhelmvx and 4 others like this.
  4. Pieman90

    Pieman90 Active Member

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    I played matches when my enemy went hard tanks and I went just grenadiers and when he pushed he lost all his tanks and I didn't lose a single grenadier and it isn't hard to make them evade tank shots.
  5. g0hstreaper

    g0hstreaper Well-Known Member

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    So to clarify before anything hits the fan I and I get linched I was playing a match and noticed that mass v mass Grenadiers were winning, this then led me to notice a few things.

    1. They have a much bigger vision and fire range radius, their shells also do a little splash damage so clumped tanks die quickly.
    2. They are 50 metal cheaper than the tanks making them easier to pump out.
    3. While they are weaker they are also faster than tanks so kiting is ezpz

    The obvious counter is Air but make 2/3 car factories, mass aa and your good

    Other than T2, mass Grenadiers is a really easy way to counter tanks as long as they aren't backed into a corner in the game. They can move faster and have longer range so there is a sweet spot for killing. Get aa and bombers are useless and overall I think what @Pieman90 is trying to say is there any form of re-balance that should be put in.


    >This inst exactly where we were back in pre-beta with mass Grenadier meta

    >Air won't get buffed cause this will happen

    >I just want to call it now if this happens
  6. exterminans

    exterminans Post Master General

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    Just flank with your tanks and these grenadiers don't stand a chance.

    Who would possibly try to compare units by smashing them into each other head on?
  7. thetrophysystem

    thetrophysystem Post Master General

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    Most everyone that ever does balance tests. And scathis :rolleyes:
    aevs and Clopse like this.
  8. radongog

    radongog Well-Known Member

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    Errrhm...
    ...this is a proof that every time something got fixed (Granadier-Ant-Balance) someone will pop up and tell that it isn´t fixed yet!


    Really, @Pieman90, how could you miss that the Ant/Bolo/Whatever got more than tripple HP in comparison to the grenadier. You could also say that the Gren got 12 HP per 15 Metal while the Ant got 25 HP per 15 Metal! -> More then DOUBLE the HP per Metal!
    lordathon likes this.
  9. Ksgrip

    Ksgrip Active Member

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    Don't even pretend to nerf them. I've seen them for at leat year and a half (since i bought the game) suck in all ways. Hp,damage, bullet speed ( Cause it is freaking important and nobody seems to have mentioned it),splash damage,speed and cost/effectiveness. Now they have a clear role, infantry-artillery unit. Don't touch my little kids or I will mess up witth you.
    Alpha2546, MrTBSC and jomiz like this.
  10. lordathon

    lordathon Active Member

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    Totally agree with you. And if you see à full grenadier just make some doxs. It's à RTS you need to adapt you (your army) all the time.
  11. exterminans

    exterminans Post Master General

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    That's no fair. Scathis did at least micro manage one side all the time. Only the other side was left dumb as a rock, and it was called "balance".
    thetrophysystem likes this.
  12. davostheblack

    davostheblack Well-Known Member

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    Dox > Grenadiers > Ants > Dox

    /thread
    cdrkf likes this.
  13. thetrophysystem

    thetrophysystem Post Master General

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    I am hoping to come back to do another build of totalredux. I never thought this went far enough with separating rapid-fire and high damage and cheap numbers and high health.
  14. andreasgg

    andreasgg Well-Known Member

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    To me it sounds like you've found a golden ore here (based on how you talk about it). So why don't you play some ranked (should be easy with the op grenadiers) and then you get back to this. If you make it into uber with spam grenadier you have a fair point, but if you don't... If they truly are so op there would be no problem to win over better players with them, right?

    Just want to quote a smart gentlemen in the end:

    It is counters to everything. Tanks isn't the one against grenadiers in the same way that grenadiers isn't the one against dox (Dox rock against everything!! Even orbital<3).
    cdrkf likes this.
  15. elodea

    elodea Post Master General

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    Let me paint you a picture :p

    Me: 2k metal income, about 110 bot factories. I have entire 800 radius planet.

    Opponent: ~280 metal income, all of it going into tanks, spinners (to protect against mass pelican + combat fab drops), and random things. His base is about the size of the spawning circle, and he protects it by area patrolling his tanks around the perimeter of his base.

    I literally attack him constantly with thousands and thousands of pure grenadier for about 30 minutes to no avail.

    Got frustrated, built 20 kestrels and killed him. I would link the replay but it didn't save.
    Last edited: June 7, 2015
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  16. Alpha2546

    Alpha2546 Post Master General

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    I think boombots also work really really well against a grenadiers army. That would be a slaughter if done right.
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  17. Killerkiwijuice

    Killerkiwijuice Post Master General

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    I approve this statement.

    I was a witness, about 20 constant tanks versus around 150 constant grenadiers and the tanks won every time.
    lordathon and Nicb1 like this.
  18. Planktum

    Planktum Post Master General

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    People always cry imba when they dont know a valid counter strategy to something. The amount of times I have heard that boom bots are a "noob strategy" is ridiculous too. But these are easy to counter with Dox due to their movement speed and high fire rate. People just need to play the game more and work out all the available options.
    warrenkc likes this.
  19. maskedcrash

    maskedcrash Active Member

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    Grenadiers are potent, but not op.
    The extra heath that tanks have goes a LONG way.
  20. zihuatanejo

    zihuatanejo Well-Known Member

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    Replay or GTFO ;) hah, seriously, if that didn't save, that sucks man, I wanna watch that!
  21. pjkon1

    pjkon1 Member

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    I'm curious what people's opinions are on this subject now that some time has passed. In my experience the OP has been more vindicated then refuted by the development of the meta thus far. While those who pointed out that gredaniars have low health, low speed, and lack aa are obviously correct, nobody in my experience goes pure grenadiars. When the grenadiar army composition is alloyed to some degree, usually by includng infernos to tank damage, spinners to deal with air and a few bolos to stop dox that survive the grenades, or booms, the grenadiar army achieves the OP status versus a pure tank army that the OP claims.

    Now, I am not the most skilled player, but I wouldn't say I'm that bad. I am plat 1 right now during the great, hopefully temporary, exodus of skilled players which has reduced the number of uber ranked players to 7. Most of my games occur against people not in the uber league. Is this phenomenon simply a product of my lack of skill, or are grens really OP when used properly?

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