Give snipers their bodyshot damage back

But reduce rate of fire and reload speed by 25%

You talking base or with any level of RoF/Reload?

How about you just l2headshot.

Yes, reducing rate of fire would force snipers to "l2headshot" instead of just throwing bullets out until one eventually hits.

But you're talking about giving bodyshot damage...

May I ask is there a reason as to why you'd like it this way? I also do notice you playing everything except the Sniper.

You guys are missing that he also wants Firerate and Reload speed reduced in lieu of the increased damage

I have no idea what the original bodyshot damage was, but depending on what the original value was, reducing RoF/Reload could reduce overall DPS on snipers

Where the reduction occurs could also make huge differences. A 25% reduction taken at base values would have less effect than a 25% reduction taken at Gold endorsement values

The problem with that is now the Sniper isn't so great when in a bot clearing roll. He's not entirely that great in the first place without upgrades, but this retains his current power while not being able to kill as fast as spam happy with body shots across the map.

It's fine how it is currently.

So basically he wants a hit to any part of the body to do about the same damage?

If we know the reason behind this change we could get a better understanding of it.

I'm finding that exploding shot is the gamebreaker here, not the bodyshots.

Bodyshot damage is entirely moot with it. Passing through enough entities - enemy or allied - can rack up enough damage in one/two shots to easily dispatch pros without even actually aiming for them. The explosion is probably larger than the grenade launcher's, as well.

Combine the excessive burst damage with the juice mechanic and you give the sniper the ability to build juice in the last 5 minutes of a match from a single full health bot group. While he's the squishiest while juiced, that doesn't make him any less of a danger when he knows how to point and click, and that cannot be considered a balancing factor.

People complained about bodyshot spam, so they addressed it by reducing the damage of each bodyshot.

But the problem remains that snipers are a very spammy class, when they really shouldn't be. Instead of going to the effort of lining up a precision headshot, it's easier to just fire off a bunch of shots until one happens to hit.

I'm saying they should be able to keep their current non-headshot damage output, but reduce the "spray-n-pray" factor a bit.

This will most definitely NOT solve any part of the problem that is the Sniper. You will still rage that good Snipers killed you from the other side of GrenadeIII without any more than a single grenade from your grenade launcher. Something needs to be done to headshots in general.

The only reason you're getting killed by those snipers is because no one is pressuring them. I remember many times on Grenade III or Ammo Mule where i've been shutdown by a good assult or assassin. Even a not so good sniper can stop another sniper from free sniping.

Ahh ok. Now I get where this is going.

I think maybe upping the damage to somewhere in-between now and then. Enough so that 4 "body shots" could just barley kill an un-armored Assault or Sniper?

I do like the idea of a longer reload timer. I mean with the default of 4 shots a clip this would add a slightly new dimension. Of course you have to factor in the endorsements thus making it a bit tricky.

I'd say out of all the suggestions I've heard this one seems to be more in the "right" direction the the others.

Actually if it took 4 body shots to kill an unarmored sniper or assault then that would be a drop in their damage not an increase.

Zoomed body shots do 170damage right now. Sniper has 300health (2body shots kill him.) Assault has 500health (3body shots kill him.)

@corducken While I agree that the explosive is a bit too good. It does not have the size radius that the grenade launcher does. It closer to half the size. However, every thing hit by a single round triggers the explosion. So hitting multiple targets not only does significantly more damage, but also by virtue of the space between the targets, increases the area affected by explosives.

Making the explosion only trigger off of the first target hit might fix this while still allowing the sniper to do things like kill bot waves, and harass supports hiding behind their firebase. Of course they'd also have to remove the explosion triggering on allied pros/bots as that would end up being more of a hinderance than a benefit if only 1 explosion occured per shot.

I think nerfing bodyshot damage was a good move, even though it is kind of still too strong (two snipers bodyshot spamming a heavy, which isn't really hard to do, can shut them down really quickly from any distance) however if there were a bodyshot damage drop off at a range (~half a map) it would force snipers to either get headshots or move in closer.

When playing gunner, I'm thankful the bodshot damage is lowered.

Reducing ROF will encourage spammy players to actually line up their shots and actually hit me. Oh dear. Nope, can't have that - going to miss the feeling of badly aimed sniper bullets whizzing past my shoulders far too much. :|

I think its funny that the rifle is classified as "slow firing" in the playbook. Its not really "slow firing" when you look at the other weapons in the game and compare it.

Shotgun - Same rate of fire
Mortar - 50% slower rate of fire
Grenade Launcher - Same Rate of Fire
Railgun - Same rate of fire

That means 4 out of the 11 other weapons in the game fire at the same rate or slower than the sniper rifle. By virtue of this it isn't really a "slow firing" weapon as there there isn't a noticeable number of normal speed weapons. Every other weapon in the game is a fast firing weapon (except the assassin's sword which is the only "medium" speed weapon in the game.)

And for additionaly screwy
Shotgun - Literally disappears after 1024 units, aka, the range of the Jetgun
Mortar - Projectile(s) easy to avoid if seen coming
GrenadeLauncher - Projectile. Explodes after 1 second of flight
Railgun - Not as accurate. Also seems to center off to the left of crosshair

Fixed that for you.