Get rid of Bunny Hopping

inb4 "l2p" "sins are useless" "rock/paper/scissors" BS. This is about a mechanic making no sense and being a generally lame "tactic".

Bunny Hopping preventing grappling makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. If I hop around RL, someone can grab me and tug me back down. Obvious contradictions are the classes with jetpacks while hovering.

Reasons: "OMGWTF I WAS IN THE AIR HOW'D THEY GRAPPLE ME?! D:<" On the other hand, I'm sick of classes bunny hopping away from me, then being guaranteed a grapple because I have to be on the ground to try to facestab them for a kill easily finished with a slash or two.

Example:
I've played nothing but an Assassin from day one of my time in beta, and it's ridiculously hard to kill a Sniper who has an IQ over 50. Ice traps, a grapple that rings you out 99% of the time, and a decently powerful short to mid-range weapon - none of which matter when he can shut down his counter-class by just... hopping around. Make the sniper USE the defensive tools he has. If I could yank him back to the ground from his pathetic 1.5-foot vertical leap, I wouldn't mind him having all that defense one bit.

tl,dr; No class in particular needs a nerf/buff, grappling just needs to be changed a bit.

Anyone feel similarly, have insight, etc?

It was a similar problem with C&C Renegade, that turned out not to be so big a deal. Everyone hopped constantly, no matter what they did. People still turned out ok. Same with TF2, though I didn't play that much?

Anywho, just try to time it when they hit the ground, and as always if they are hopping around then back off of them. Especially snipers, I always carry a shuriken launcher with me when approaching a sniper because a good clip can kill or injure him EVEN if an ice trap is activated YET you can still grapple if open to.

L2P NUB! nah im joking, bunny hopping doesn't seem to be that great of a problem as you can just grapple them when they land which i don't think is to hard to time. plus, grappling has to have some counter right?

Edit: Assassin isn't the counter class to sniper....*points at assault*

Assassin is a bot killer, go for bots, not for pros. /thread

This is the type of game where superior mobility / evasion is how to win. Don't want bunny hopping? Go play CoD.

My bot kill total is #1 for > 90% of my games played, /troll. Also have to add that we may as well not have a backstab if we shouldn't be going for pros, because it sure as hell isn't for Blackjacks.

The problem with "Don't like it? Quit" in this case is that's exactly how this game wasn't made. re: beta feedback. I find that the concept of grappling is a bit pointless when everyone hops around like the floor is a giant trampoline the instant they think anyone might be trying to grapple them. And again, sense - bunny hopping trumping grapples makes none. Jetpacks trumping them does.

That's what I would figure, that timing a grapple shouldn't be so hard - but thanks to lag and possibly botched netcode updates (I've seen numerous threads mentioning that grapples seem broken after the last update), grappling at -all- seems to come down to luck more than timing. Everyone's grappled through someone's head at least twice before. By removing bunny hopping, you remove lag causing repeated failed grapples when trying to time one in between hops.

As far as countering a grapple goes, I'd personally like to see some kind of a quicktime event added to counter/break a grapple. I get the feeling just breaking or weakening a grapple would be best with that idea. But again, lag would be an issue, and a lot of counters wouldn't register, so. :\ New ideas aside, the easiest way to not get grappled is to stay at range. Every pro except the Tank and Assassin have effective medium to long-range weapons of some kind, or in the support's case, airstrike/firebase and one hell of a shotgun to keep enemies at bay. Why people come in close and rely on bunny hopping to avoid being grappled, then turn around and say surviving is the key to doing well in the game baffles me. Don't want to get punched out of the ring or grappled in the first place? You have GUNS. Use them like the guns they are, aka not all guns are shotguns. We sins have a sword and a Shuriken launcher that isn't that great for much more than spamming clueless, deployed gunners/tanks and taking out turrets/firebases, so we need to be able to get in close and use our killing tool effectively when we choose to. You can hear us coming a mile away, and we're squishy. Pay attention and use what tools/skills your class has, not the spacebar. (Went on a bit of an extended tangent there, but meh.)

It's all about timing your grapple.

If you are spamming grapple after someone has already seen you, no offense, but you need to learn to play properly.

This seems to be just another "omg I can't facegrapple someone into an easy, cheap kill for me, because they know how to avoid it QQ :< D: please make this cheap tactic more useful by making it unavoidable okay?" thread.

Not spamming, following it up by grappling while essentially helping them teabag me repeatedly because they're hopping. (lulz :| )

Grappling is already a cheap kill for most classes - ring out, anyone? Autograpple, Assault? (-That- in particular is lame as anything.) I do realize that bunnyhopping is the one way to avoid being grappled, but to see someone get a grapple kill in the middle of a crowd, then hop away from two other people lined up to countergrapple and punish their dumb *** for grappling in a crowd in the first place is kind of sad.

As for this, specifically...

We're louder than a foghorn once you learn what our cloak and charge sound like. Learn those, wear some armor if you don't think you can react fast enough, and keep your wits about you like you're supposed to. Personally, all the people going "look, another sin whining about how they can't grapple" in so many threads just sound like "I don't want to have to actually pay attention/watch my *** to avoid them" to me. It's not hard to do without having hops at your disposal; the problem is finding something else that could actually work well as a counter to grapples - something that would rely on skill, timing, and wouldn't be destroyed by lag. The second and third, though, seem to be mutually exclusive.

The point of this thread, though, wasn't that hops make it hard on Assassins, it was that bunny hopping is, IMO, a lame kind of counter that makes little to no logical sense. Mash space to survive. :| Yes, it leaned towards sins, I've played one far more than any other class, so of course it would.

EDIT: Perhaps add a timed element to both sides of a grapple. Both players involved attempt to time a button press. Damage/effect of the grapple is based on how well the grappler times theirs, then is mitigated by how well the person being grappled times theirs. Just an idea. All of this would take place in the span of the grapple animation, which is a few seconds at least.

I have troubles doing headshots when playing sniper, there's some people who are always moving and they're never in my reticle when I click, this is a totally unfair and cheap tactic, can we please get rid of WASD?

Thx

More seriously, what grim said, work on timing your grapple or lunge+grapple so you catch people when they're on the ground, and from my experience there's quite some tolerance, you can land a grapple even if they're slightly above the ground more often than not.

jumping hardly prevents grapples anymore

there's PLENTY of window between jumps to land a grab

I have no trouble avoiding assassins at all, they're audible enough as they are, and there are a few good assassins who get seen intentionally, then cloak when out of sight and get behind their target, then proceed to back grapple them because they couldn't possibly know the assassin was coming at them (uncloaked, not dashing).

The problem with assassins is that most of them just w+m2 on sight, no matter what happens, even if I have a lv3 jetpack and keep hovering above them, they will still desperately attempt to grapple me. You just seem like one of those assassins. In case you, as you claim, aren't, you should have no trouble getting grapples.

In other words, cry more, the game is fine as it is.

And indeed as Zarakon says, it's easy enough to grapple someone as they touch the ground between jumps. As for the assault charge, lv3 is a downgrade. If you really want to talk about cheap tactics, I'd happily introduce you to charge+death blossom tanks (those 2 moves, together, kill anything other than a gunner/tank with silver/gold armor).

Contrary to the Assassin's namesake, she is more of a saboteur than a simple pro killing machine. Even if a grapple doesn't work, you are still distracting your enemy, and that can prove quite valuable when all hell breaks loose in Overtime. Besides, the shurikan launcher does a much better job at killing pros than the grapple as everyone and their dog uses a gold or silver armor endorsement.

I've seen way too many assassins just running around below me spamming grapple(many while still cloaked...) while I'm hovering in the air. Maybe 10% actually try slashing at me and not a single one ever thinks to bring out the shurikens
More times than not I either shoot them to death, lead them back into a dropped Bomb or eliminate them via Charge

I dunno, I find the grapple at the first impact rather useful

Killing bots is more important than one-shotting pros from across the map, l2p. You can learn to lead a target effectively by watching their movement patterns and letting them strafe into your reticle. Thanks to lag and packet loss, whether it's from my connection or another player's or the server itself, timing a grapple doesn't seem to work very well. I get ****-tons of grappling through people who were quite clearly on the ground, and this is only an issue when they're hopping. If they're standing still, I can typically grab them first try with no problem. It's possible to spend so little time "on the ground" between hops that once you add lag in, they're not on the ground when they appear to be.

That name is definitely a better one for her, and that's how she should be played. Like every class, though, she has a tool to kill pros, and it happens to be her speed and backstab. As for the armor endorsements, The only class I haven't been able to kill with a backstab is the tank (even with a charge in there first). Armor endorsements don't seem to change that, personally. I don't know what the actual numbers are, though.

Of course they can't grapple you, you're keeping yourself in the air with a jetpack. That makes sense.

My counter class doesn't need ice traps or a throw when all it has to do is spend the whole match hopping around when not attempting a headshot. I've watched a number of snipers that literally spend nearly the entire match hopping. Specifically, like I mentioned above, the issue is that in my case (and I would assume my case is not an isolated one) lag makes grappling very difficult to time if the player is hopping because they're not on the ground when they appear to be, nor can you make any decent guess as to when they are.

"I think the game is fine, but I can't resist an attempt at sounding cool on the internet." fix'd it for you <3

I'd say tanks have a bit too much health, but I hear gunners chew them up good, and hopping doesn't help them much. Class, meet your counter-class. Try to avoid it while doing what your class does best.

All of that aside... seriously, people. This thread wasn't supposed to be another Assassin thread. Not being able to grapple a bunny hop simply doesn't make sense. That, and it adds something that doesn't really work as a counter. Everyone gets grappled in mid-jump thanks to lag every so often. (think down+b in pokemon, lulz.) People here keep saying "time your grapples and you should be able to get them every time". Ok then, do you mean to say hopping isn't a counter to grappling, then? Then we need something else anyway, like staying at range and not getting close enough/put at enough of a disadvantage to get grappled in the first place. Grapples aren't meant to be a major offensive move, they're a finishing move or last-ditch effort to kill an aggressive opponent.

What we've been saying is that once you figure out that you grapple the opponent while he is on the ground you will succeed in grappling, and even more: thanks to a current bug you can grapple people from halfway across the map no matter if they are flying, dying, shooting, farting in your general direction or anything similar.

grapple them as they come down, you also missed the point about jumping headshots that this guy made.

"nce you figure out that you grapple the opponent while he is on the ground you will succeed in grappling"

I don't think you phrased that right, unless you mean to repeat the obvious. Of course you have to grapple someone when they're on the ground. What I've been saying is that lag makes it very difficult to figure out when that -is- if someone's hopping because of how little time you can spend on the ground between hops. I get that plenty of people don't have this issue at all, but I can't imagine that it's isolated to only me, and beyond that, a small enough group of people that it can't be considered an issue at all.

To repeat it again, hopping makes no sense as a counter to grappling. Something else would be better, IMO.

If that bug is supposed to make me think things are all fixed now, it's called a bug for a reason.

Which was?

If you're talking about PC beta, then you're an idiot. The beta was to fix bugs of the transition of xbox to PC, not to see whether the gameplay needed massive overhauls.

The point was that they took feedback from players and used it to make the final product. Also, I think there were a number of balance changes made based on player input, though I'm not certain on that one.

Also, you couldn't help but call me an idiot, could you? ffs internet. "You're wrong" is what you meant.

Contrary to popular belief, we can hear you, yes, but when you're completely invisible (Unless you're THAT close to us), and you lunge out of cloak, we have no way to prevent being grappled, besides jumping, which isn't very reliable (Ping and all).