Games!

Discussion in 'Unrelated Discussion' started by Geers, March 4, 2015.

  1. cola_colin

    cola_colin Moderator Alumni

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    I don't get how you would even compare that. Do you have any idea at all what it technically means to make a game like No Mans Sky basically into an MMO, even though 99.9% of all players will only play it single player?

    That's like adding a "theme park" building to PA that allows you to zoom in onto the thing and play a full fledged "theme park tycoon" inside of it while outside tanks role by. Utterly pointless and a total waste of time to basically all your other efforts in the game you develop.

    Sure a bunch of nice looking graphical playthings or mods. Fine that makes sense. But NMS with MMO-but-actually-you-won't-use-it mechanics? Just makes no sense. A feature that is expected to be used only by 0.01% or less of your players should not cost you weeks or month of development time.
  2. tehtrekd

    tehtrekd Post Master General

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  3. squishypon3

    squishypon3 Post Master General

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    Watched the gameplay just now- Does the fov looks really low to anybody else? I hope on PC I can turn it up.
  4. cola_colin

    cola_colin Moderator Alumni

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    I dunno why people care so much about fov, that looks fine. But I do hope I can torture my machine with a higher vision range.
  5. Geers

    Geers Post Master General

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    Because they literally get sick if it's too low.
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  6. Killerkiwijuice

    Killerkiwijuice Post Master General

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  7. Geers

    Geers Post Master General

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    HOLY F.UCK THEY SAID INTERSTELLAR AND NOT INTERGALACTIC THEREBY AVOIDING THE STUPIDEST F.UCKING MISTAKE OF ALL!

    Seriously though, why is it that everyone seems to say intergalactic when they mean interstellar? How the hell does that even happen? INTER STELLAR. BETWEEN. STARS. ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT STARS? YES YOU ARE GOD DAMMITFIGEAJWIOGJFNEAWOI;JGHE;OIAW

    /rant.
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  8. igncom1

    igncom1 Post Master General

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    I'm glad I'm not the only one.
    Geers likes this.
  9. cola_colin

    cola_colin Moderator Alumni

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    interplanetary
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  10. Geers

    Geers Post Master General

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    Nope they used it right.

    YOU CAN'T TAKE THIS AWAY FROM ME.
  11. Devak

    Devak Post Master General

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    They could just scan for interplayer distances and put them into a shared instance when two get too close
  12. cola_colin

    cola_colin Moderator Alumni

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    "just"
  13. tatsujb

    tatsujb Post Master General

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    given we're generating for all from a unique key and the universe is the same there is such a concept as XYZ for this game and it can be the client's responsibility to communicate XZY to the database say once per day.

    if one day the coordinates of two players are in proximity (relative to something like infinity... it would still take a day or two for the players to meet) the next time they start the game they start sending their coordinates once every 2 hours.

    if in that period they grow apart they revert to the old scheme otherwise the next time they run the game it connects them on the same sever rather then a local instance.

    a tentative proposition.
  14. igncom1

    igncom1 Post Master General

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    I figured it was going to be like dark souls where you see other players like ghosts, or as NPC's.

    A bunch of players going to a particular place would show up as one player seeing a bunch of NPC's based on the originals showing up and doing stuff.
  15. cola_colin

    cola_colin Moderator Alumni

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    So do you want players to just see their respecitive chars? Or also the results of the actions they take?
    If you don't also put in the result of the actions you'll get pretty weird artifacts like seeing chars inside walls.

    What about the "time" on the planets? Like the two players who managed this in their screenshots clearly had completely different time of day on their respective planets. Meaning the planets had different locations relative to their sun. At what point in your "oh two players are close, lets make a connection between them" will you magically change the time of day for them to match?

    It's a rabbit hole to make that stuff work in a reasonable way. I am sure of that. No 5 minutes of "I think that might work" can ever be accurate.
  16. tatsujb

    tatsujb Post Master General

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    well it was just a proposition.

    I for one think even if the idea is broken out of the box the concepts i laid out take a few lines of code for the XZY and a bunch more (but not unreasonable) to get the server stuff up.

    but really the issues you bring up kinda seem blown out of proportion.
    again set key procedural is pretty impressive in terms of how it really runs like clockwork.

    say you start identical key maps on two instances of minecraft via script. the daytime and nightime won't just be synchronized :it'll be the same down to the microsecond.

    so add daytime and all the last remaining elements of NMS to the key (this way all planet's time in the universe will be spinning in same direction at same speed and from same start not as each other but as another NMS instance) and bind gametime to online clock (yes that means time will be different when you reopen the game) (or without internet (does this game even run without internet?) systemtime*locale*calculation to get a best approx.) when the game fisrt runs then sync periodically at the same times i said above.

    While you're "far" from anyone you'll never notice any ruber-banding since sync will run on either game launch or game shutdown without you even being in the game and given the increasing/and decreasing sync frequencies (and how gradual is not limited since you can add as many steps as need be) the only rubber banding you'll ever notice will be minimal. you won't notice any rubberbanding.

    finally given the rarity of the occasion you can crush every other game's connectivity by comparison; as you're only trying to connect two people three on even rarer occasions and the data to trade is ridiculously small compared to any other game and netcode issues are known to be something to spike in number when the number of people you are trying to connect and sync increases. since we're at the bottom of that chart expect a percentage of rubber banding lower than any other game in history.

    I really don't see why dev work would stop now. they have cash.

    this daynight and clipping thing really seems to me like something that is quite easy to patch out forever.

    but I'm a no good scrub who knows nothing so feel free to crush my dreams. :p
    Last edited: August 11, 2016
  17. cola_colin

    cola_colin Moderator Alumni

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    The daytime of the planets is just a specific example for the problem that you will need to basically sync up the state of all players, so that just in case they meet, you don't get problems.

    I've not played the game yet, so my knowledge about specific game mechanics is limited, but I do remember seeing how people can make little terraforming "holes" into the ground. Now imagine I make a hole in a place in a specific shape. I leave. You go to that place. I am not there, so you don't see my hole. You make another hole.
    Now I come back to meet you at "the hole". As an extra twist let's say your hole is shaped in a little different way and your current location is basically in the air if you were to just add in my hole.
    Merging the two game states just became impossible. Either my hole stays or yours, both can't exist in parallel.

    Same thing probably for all sorts of things, trading, destroying ships, any form of collectible resources, etc.
    You can't let players create arbitrary game save states and then go and merge them in a consistent way without putting in all sorts of restrictions. Restrictions nobody wants.

    Ofc dev work should not stop. And if they want to they probably can (or maybe actually really already have) implement a system for this. But if they do (or have) they probably have more in mind than just a handful of cases where players ever use the system, as implementing this is a lot more complex then it seems at surface.
  18. xankar

    xankar Post Master General

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  19. igncom1

    igncom1 Post Master General

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    Well I went and bought it on steam for later in the evening to play.

    My expectations are reasonable low, so I'll probably find it fun even after what everyone has said.

    Even still, feel like I'm going to need to play it for at least 40 hours to justify the cost..... at least it's healthier then a week's worth of chicken vindaloo.
    tatsujb, tunsel11 and Geers like this.
  20. Killerkiwijuice

    Killerkiwijuice Post Master General

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