Flow fields as a way to predict stuff in the fog of war

What if the enemy is in the fog of war and blocking a chokepoint with his army. When your army moves it will avoid the chokepoint and you can deduce that the area must be filled with enemies, even though its covered in fog of war.

Or another example, what if the enemy has built a long and solid wall with one opening.. Will your units head right for the opening from the get-go even if the wall has never been seen by you yet?

I've been asking that question (with different words) over here too. viewtopic.php?f=64&t=44901

The simplest solution is to make the cost falloff larger for stuff like enemy units. So while your units can "see" a hill from far away because of its low cost falloff and navigate appropriately, they wouldn't be able to see the enemies to avoid until they were within a sensible range. (Most likely one that's smaller than their view radius.)

I just really hope that I won't be able to issue a move order and get information about where the enemy has structures or units in the fow based on the path of my unit.

How would you? You never see the flowfield during gameplay.

Mike

edited for clarity, also see first and second posts

Different question then, if your units avoid something you can't see in the FOW, how do you KNOW what is there if you can't see it due to the FOW?

Also, how do you KNOW they're avoiding something to begin with.

Mike

Because you know there isnt anything else to avoid but enemy buildings. You might have played this map 50 times before.

A] Procedurally Generated Planets.

B] Pathing Depends on a LOT of factors, where you are moving TO, WHAT is moving and Where you're moving FROM.

In Short you're making a whole lot of assumptions but not communicating them to us. That's kinda important for having a proper discussion.

Mike

I think the solution is as simple as limiting the flow field calculations to the known terrain. When the units encounter the enemy then they can be used to add cost but until they know they are there it should be treated as empty land.

Agreed. In TA when you saw an enemy building, it remained visible in the FOW in it's last known condition. Hopefully when calculating paths with the flowfields it will take into consideration only the known information for the player.

To answer your A). Even if the planets are procedurally generated, i think that we will see the planet surface even if its not explored, just greyed out a bit like in FA.

and B) The shortest distance is always a straight line, so when units diverges from that, you can deduce that something is in the way. Like if your enemy builds a wall blocking off a small path between some mountains.

I don't think that flow fields "chat" with fog of war at all. And if they do not, then you can get information from your units paths before you have cleared the fog of war.

This is why im concerned.


Edit: ninja posts inbetween my answer and teh answered :geek:

I don't think this is a concern, really. Here's why:

We saw in the latest livestream that units react dynamically, while moving, to a change in the movement cost of certain areas. I assume that the pathfinding would always base its shortest route on the information known to you, the player, and simply adapt when it finds out that a route is blocked by e.g. a previously unseen building/wall/big mass of enemy units, by evading or simply finding a new path.

Firstly: Procedural planets != Random planets. There will still be maps with predefined starting conditions.

Secondly: Flow fields can easily choose what data to take into account. Generate a separate set of fields for each "alliance" of players, and make these fields ignore any enemy units or buildings until they are discovered when inevitably the units get close enough, at which point re-calculate the fields in the sectors where enemy units have been found. It's not that hard.

Anyways, why would enemy units need to have a "cost" whatsoever? If you are moving close or directly towards the enemy, it's pretty clear that your intentions are to move near them. Perhaps it could be an option you can set per unit that defines whether or not they take known enemy locations into account of their fields.

This. Pathing only takes into account what you actually know.

Nope. Sup Com did this, but TA units & structures disappeared when the fog of war covered them (wreckages and terrain features stayed though)

Source pls.

Edit: Also, hope you're right

Well, common sense, I hope. But there's no source saying they won't, so why wouldn't they?

Yeah, I think raeven has it right.

For clarity - here's a rubbish mock-up of the situation I think you're enquiring about:



If the unit takes the top route, you KNOW there is a wall there, regardless of whether it has yet been revealed.