Fixing the Balance

Discussion in 'Balance Discussions' started by mered4, October 21, 2014.

  1. mered4

    mered4 Post Master General

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    I mentioned elsewhere(https://forums.uberent.com/threads/does-this-forum-still-serve-any-purpose.65376/#post-1022490) that I would be creating a detailed report on how the balance should or shouldn't work in PA. I've made the first part of that report and posted it to Google. I've also made a few preliminary changes to balance with a new Server mod. I played some games with @klovian to test out a few of the changes, and I'll link his stream so ya'll can watch the replays, if necessary. I'll be continuing work on this report and the balance changes until I get it to a point that is feasible/usable within the game's current framework.

    Report: https://docs.google.com/document/d/170vmCQfYox9dj8350UG1Lsh1nbFNC8mim6PWvMiFBfE
    Detailed Changes: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1icQB1bjPm02eLIoy19Q0CoZyhO655Jj8qxpfrLdslAs/edit?usp=sharing
    Klovian's Recordings: http://www.twitch.tv/klovian/b/580296111 (First game at 1:30:50, Second Game at 1:51:00)
    He doesn't have my audio for some reason, but the games themselves should speak to what is affected in gameplay.

    PAStats:
    Game 1: http://pastats.com/chart?gameId=230803
    Game 2: http://pastats.com/chart?gameId=230807

    Game w/ PRotz: http://pastats.com/chart?gameId=230848

    FFA5 Test: http://pastats.com/chart?gameId=230958
    FFA4 Test: http://pastats.com/chart?gameId=230958

    Game w/ TrophySystem: http://pastats.com/chart?gameId=230987
    Game 2 w/ TrophySystem: http://pastats.com/chart?gameId=230981

    v. Murcanic:

    G1: http://pastats.com/chart?gameId=231961
    G2: http://pastats.com/chart?gameId=231968
    G3: http://pastats.com/chart?gameId=232927
    G4: http://pastats.com/chart?gameId=232943
    G5: http://pastats.com/chart?gameId=232949

    v. ZestyBear:

    http://pastats.com/chart?gameId=232115

    v. Klovian:

    G1: http://pastats.com/chart?gameId=232145
    G2: http://pastats.com/chart?gameId=232160
    G3: http://pastats.com/chart?gameId=232168

    If You want to help test, just send me a PM or something. I'll be in the IRC and Realm Teamspeak all day.

    UPDATE:

    Changed Basic Radar:
    Radar Range: 600 -> 350
    Orbital radar Range: 300 -> 150

    Fixed Bugs with the Stingray, Deep Space Radar.

    Increased Holkins health - it popped way too easily before, making it nigh impossible to defend against small bomber forces.

    Adjusted Adv Energy Plant Efficiency from 1.78 to 2.0


    Status:
    Working on naval stand-alone balance. Done.
    Working on Land rebalance and Economy Basic v Advanced "Flattening" Done.
    Working on Orbital and Super-Weapon Balance. Done.

    Post-release Status:
    Thinking about balance and the Stinger


    In the not-too-distant future:
    Nuclear Missile Submarine. (Personal Favorite :eek:)

    The Beast is finished. I've added it to PAMM! Awesome!

    Hey Uber! This is how you fix your balance. Just wanted to demonstrate. It's not perfect, but it's a sight better than yours. Uber, pls.
    Last edited: November 1, 2014
  2. Clopse

    Clopse Post Master General

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    Looks like a good change to dox. Games are dull non strategic and uninteresting as once you seen one you have seen them all. The problem is t2 costing which leads to the efficiency of t1 units. The more units you can use during a game the better the game and more strategic and interesting all games will be.

    So the dox is the tip of the iceberg, all that will lead to is maybe more players will start using tanks, dox will mix in air which they should be doing anyhows for vision and air support which is usually the way a tank player wins against a dox spammer. So this in itself doesn't do much. Half cost of t2 ractory, it's units, their dps and their health and see what we get.

    Make pds much stronger/ quicker to build.
    zihuatanejo, mered4 and elodea like this.
  3. mered4

    mered4 Post Master General

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    Oops


    Forgot something LOL. I haven't even touched Dox yet clopse :D But I am adding that change to the next build anyway.

    New Doc:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1icQB1bjPm02eLIoy19Q0CoZyhO655Jj8qxpfrLdslAs/edit?usp=sharing
  4. Clopse

    Clopse Post Master General

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    I tought I read no longer shoot air and vision dropped?
  5. mered4

    mered4 Post Master General

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    I put the actual changes on a different sheet. The link got busted, so I just moved them to a different Doc altogether. I am planning those specific changes for the Dox, however.
  6. mered4

    mered4 Post Master General

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    UPDATE:

    Added Dox changes (reduced vision, no AA)
    Added Naval Cost changes for T1 units
  7. towerbabbel

    towerbabbel Active Member

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    You probably should do something about the commander torpedoes. Its silly that a commander can take on a t2 naval fleet on its own.
  8. mered4

    mered4 Post Master General

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    ...Don't remind me. It's actually the hardest part about balancing naval :/

    EDIT: New RoF for the torpedo: 0.5 fom 2.0 per second.
    Last edited: October 21, 2014
  9. Clopse

    Clopse Post Master General

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    Just have a dgun cool down and same range as the orca?
  10. mered4

    mered4 Post Master General

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    oooh same range as orca. Didn't think of that. That should do it.

    Also, I'm streaming. www.twitch.tv/mered4
    thetrophysystem likes this.
  11. towerbabbel

    towerbabbel Active Member

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    How does the Orca vs Narwhal balance work out? If I'm getting the stats right the Narwhal costs less, is faster, has the same range, more DPS, and has AA.
  12. mered4

    mered4 Post Master General

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    You are forgetting that the Orca has two guns :)

    ....And a torpedo. ;)
  13. towerbabbel

    towerbabbel Active Member

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    Both guns together only amount to 80DPS, which still is less than the 100DPS of the Narwhal.

    Right, the torpedo! That puts the Orca ahead on DPS on things in the water at least. But given the other advantages of the Narwhal it still seems a better idea to spam Narwhals unless you need to shoot at something underwater. I mean cheaper, faster, AA, and better on land damage is still pretty a big deal.
  14. mered4

    mered4 Post Master General

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    Wait what? The Narwhal has less splash and.....
    .....More DPS lol. It actually leaves it on equal footing with the Orca, with the exception of the Torpedo.

    Regardless, the Orca is still more powerful than the Narwhal by a large amount. However, I might look into a cost decrease for the Orca if it comes to that.

    EDIT: Increased the Orca's DPS to 100.

    50 per shot.
  15. mered4

    mered4 Post Master General

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    New Changes:

    Leveler given Splash Damage
  16. mered4

    mered4 Post Master General

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  17. Clopse

    Clopse Post Master General

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    Im home in like 20 minutes may pop in and try it out if you still around.
  18. mered4

    mered4 Post Master General

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    Still working on the Adv. Unit changes. This is taking a while. I made them a separate mod so the previous version is still testable.
  19. thetrophysystem

    thetrophysystem Post Master General

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    I am not a high level player, but approve of theses so far.

    Ofc commander torpedo range of orca and half rate of fire as you did. At least then a commander must trade damage instead of sniping armies before range.

    Dox mild nerf, acceptable.

    Leveler given a utility, I say it could also use a slight range increase as well to supplement t1 tanks, like they work together now and 1 does everything the other wish it did.

    Air balance next?

    Also, I didn't clearly understand your t2 thoughts, but as far as a "values only" adjustment while keeping the basic feel of t2, just make t2 income 3x t1 income, same current cost so a cheap metal point is still the most beneficial income, reduce the cost of t2 factories in half, reduce health in half, increase the cost of the t2 fabbers because unlike t1 fabbers you have personal liability for t2 fabber protection as they should be defendable that point in the game, keep unit costs for t2 units and that is seperate anyway, and reduce cost of nuke and antinuke about 4k less a nuke and 1k less an antinuke.
    Last edited: October 21, 2014
  20. mered4

    mered4 Post Master General

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    What's wrong with T1 air balance right now? Anything besides people wanting a T1 Transport?

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