Faults carried over from Supreme Commander and more

So I was really really really excited to hear about a game where you can bash whole planets which is giving an sadistic monster like me an real thrill (bashed 3 planets in star wars empire at war :twisted: ).
But I see that there are just a couple of faults which already screwed up Supreme Commander (sup com 2 was better but...).
So I wanted to recap anything what screwed up Supreme Commander 1&2 hoping that it somehow finds it way to the devs.

So here they are TOP 5 OF SUPREME COMMANDERS FAULTS (appearing to get in PA)

RED:Historic Material form SUP 1&2
BLUE:What Could be made better

1.Insane Amount of Mass and Energy
That was the most annoying thing in SUP 1 because you had 1million energy and mass but still hadnt enough.I think the Idea of increasing that number further by making defenses dependent of it is really bad (and that is said much too friendly...) It leads to a bunch of further faults
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE forget the idea of units&buildings drawing energy and mass when firing.Throw the Idea in the Paperbin,burn your blackboards (even better the buildings they stand in)neuralize your brains, but just forget it
See I dont have anything against buildings which draw energy but please just continously so they wont screw up your ressource management

1.2 Mass and Energy in SUP 2
Those happened EVERYTIME at SUP 2 it was the thing resulting of the awfull try to fix the energy system which resulted in hundred of reactors and mass transformers which magically created an infinite amount of ressources
Dont let this ever happen again keep the ressources strictly separated and develop some balancement.For example: moons will lack iron but have helium 3 and an orbit position,planets lack energy,orbit stations have no mass at all but they got infinite sun energy
oh and dont make so mad power generators they just were too strong

2.Super Units
Those happened in SUP 2 (in SUP 1 it wasnt that easy) referring to 1.2 you had an infinite amount of energy and mass which (nukes and artillery were disabled on any game) lead to an enormous amount of superfactories building superunits which were superunstoppable what was super shitty (still too nice) because you couldnt win with normal units and you had no battle at all because the super units just rolled over your base instantly.
Even if it seems that you need super units they will just screw up the game aslong as there will be power generators so forget them just like the idea of haiving insane mass and energy.

3.Shields gotta be shields THERE AINT NO SCI-FI WITHOUT SHIELDS
That what you called shields in the SUP games werent shields it was hot air -_- I HATED IT how can high explosive shields fly through an high energetic dampening shield?!? GAHWD EVEN STAR WARS UNDERSTOOD PHYSICS BETTERand they swapped plasma with laser (there werent any laser guns at all)
There can be shields (someone in the shield discussion said they wouldnt be possible) maybe no energy domes but magnetic fields,plasma shields,nanite shields,laser grids,quantum shields (I wont explain those) you see there is a couple of methods which are realistic and there are the unrealistic dampening fields (as seen in star wars) but they got 1 thing in common THEY WONT LET ANY EXPLOSIVES PASS ASLONG AS POWERED SUFFICENT

I think all those *balancing*(a bad idea cant be balanced) issues just came because NORMAL shields dont let any projectiles pass by and are like an armor plating over a place

Just 1:Block all Bullets 2:mention air pressure (explosion density) 3:mention half-liquid shield structure


4.Tiny Defenses
Tiny Defenses were tiny especially if measured to land enemies (which is nothing when mentioning the unit skale) and were useless in later Gameplay especially against super units (ironically the super defenses were awfull too)
There got to be more diversified defense systems with individual upgrades but dont screw it up with useless tiers like in sup 1

5.AI Madness
Especially at SUP1 the AI was extremely unfair since it A:Commanded Hundred Units in 0.1 seconds B:It never had balancing problems C:It was a bitch
AIs need delays they cant keep anything in view and they also shouldnt get any bonus at ressources because they are much more intelligent than yourself



I might make an top 10 out of this when remembering more stuff to hate or if you give suggestions to hate.I will also try to remove unjustified points (shields ARE possible dont try to argue on this)


Your annoying supporter from the neighbourhood Cool3303 :lol:

PA is more a successor to Total Annihilation than SupCom.

There are no plans for buildings that transform energy to mass which means mass will be a limiting factor at all times. The run-away economy you know from SupCom with large farms of T3 PGs and MassFabs that give you unlimited resources won't be a problem.

Superunits are not confirmed. Even if one or two make it into the game I don't expect them to be anywhere near as dominant as in SupCom, FA and especially SupCom2.

No shields.

Static base defenses are present in many forms but I recommend to use units to defend as well. Towers are really hard to move and a planet has no map borders...

The regular AI in SupCom was not that great. The best strategy is to attack it early and frequently and to destroy its economy before it can pelt you with dozens of nukes. Attack is the best defense.

:lol:


Srsly though, I think aside from the fact that shields are in Star Wars, pretty much every statement in this post is wrong. gg


And if you actually had problems with the regular AI in SupCom, then you probably should not play strategy games.
Like, ever.

Defences using power to fire in TA was one of the best things in TA.

Exactly! It already works in the alpha. If you have half a dozen Leviathan battleships you need some serious power reserves to keep them shelling the area without pause. Power usage of artillery is an important balancing tool and it works!

I agree with #1.2, #3, and #4, and that's it.

Also, your poll is irredeemably biased, and must be brought back to the fires from whence it came. There are, believe it or not, opinions OTHER than yours, and it is expected of you as an OP to make a poll that expresses everyone's opinion in an equal and unbiased fashion.

It kinda confuses me that no one shares my opinion that SupCom wasnt that great....
You know nukes often werent the problem because the couple of active players always deactivated nukes and artillery...

Thank every voter to consider me raging too much that was thought as troll answer

Even though it ruined SupCom2 They should be there too prevent the mentioned metal planets to get yourself an near infinite amount of metal (assuming that mining pure metal will be more usefull than digging dirt) also what is about moons (they partially wont have metal) or maybe free floating space stations (I want to make a Ringworld[google it])

I think SupCom didnt really boost the confidence in that point
What about something else too protect your bases like Nanite Generators which create a carpet of nanites that repair your stuff dampen hits (by using "living"-shield technique)
Or laser Grids shooting anything except bullets
I still want metal crushing magnetic fields,energized ion shields and the sci-fi shields (mostly dampening fields which induce energy based on the objects speed) but I think I can live without them (or die trying)

On the Counterside you could just barricade in a valley surrounded by mountains or on a plateau since your first goal should be to get into space

I play pretty defensive and build a overwhelming base and then I build an much too big army.Oh and 99% always turned nukes off

Invalid Argument
You probably have no idea what Quantum Shields should be....
Let me explain it: The Quantum Theory shows off a wide field of possibilites to manipulate mass and do things wich are considered impossible even though we cant "control" quantum phenomenes there are various experiments proving that it can be made
Now what I mean with quantum shields are mechanism which use Qantum Entanglement to slow down projectiles instantly causing them to explode (except not explosives which would fall down) but it can just connect to 1 projetile at once which makes it usefull against artillery but almost useless against a mass of fighters


However...
I hadnt problems with the regular AI just that 3 AIs teamed up on me while I had no idea of nuthing (it was nice that the multiple building placement was hidden as if click and pull would be too easy)Also the Tutorial was eeeeeeendless I mean I am not too retarded to click units but the 3tiers of SupCom1 Realy killed me

In fact I added the option things in SupCom were fine but I redid it (it was just to remove the post about me hating too much :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: )

PS:I got dibs on hating things I got banned cuontless times because of being too harsh (Never were at my school :roll: )

Ok, let's go.

1) That's not how quantum entanglement works. But who gives a crap anyway, it's scifi

2) SupCom was (and actually is) great and even though I can understand some people being thrown off by how shields work I see them as legitemately useful, neither OP nor UP.

3) Nukes can be easily countered by anti-nukes and I have no idea what you mean by "the few active players deactivated them". Are you aware that SupCom has an active and growing competitive community through FAF? Watch a few of the top players playing (all with nukes enabled of course) and tell me that actually ANYTHING in the game remains completely useless or OP at this point.


My opinion on shields is that there SHOULD be a way to protect against inicial artillery fire without having to take the artillery station down. After all, I WANT the game to get to the planet destruction stage. I cannot get there if I have to focus on rushing down my enemy in order to prevent artillery spam. You have mentioned several cool ways to implement shields actually and Uber have said that they don't particularily hate the idea anyway but maybe will implement it only in a later stage/an expansion of the game. I guess I am okay with it if another well-balanced way of base defense is found.
However, I really like turtling and slow base expansion, so shields are something that I find very cool personally.
Having tactical missile defenses that shoot down incoming projectiles is cool against actual tactical missile launchers (are those even in the game yet?) but not against artillery because the main point of artillery is that the bullets can only be stopped by physically hitting something (whether it be a shield or a unit).
Shields also offer protection against single bombing runs, which nothing else can atm. If I spam 100 bombers at my opponents, they are probably going to drop off their bombs before being shot down, no matter how good his AA. Shields offer those precious seconds of protection to make your base defenses actually matter and prevent kamikaze attacks.

It's not how quantum anything works. In most softcore sci fi, it's a catchall phrase for "science magic". It doesn't mean anything in our real world, other than to sound cool for kids.

Shields are not a solution to artillery fire. They are a solution to ALL enemy fire. That makes it a terrible tool for the job of deflecting only artillery attacks. It however makes a great tool for units that require some form of ultimate defense.

There are plenty of more precise and easier to design tools to deflect artillery, than using shields.

Opening post would be hard pressed to be more wrong if he tried.

I think I disagreed with everything there.

Report it for trolling, but don't forget to welcome the newcomer to the forums! :lol:

I just re-read the post, and I take back some of what I said. I agree that the first and second points were problems, but I disagree on the proposed solution. I think it's just a simple case of the exponential growth in economic power.

Superunits are bad and wrong, and should never be included. Even if you can put some good, useful and balanced ones in; some idiot will come along and want more of them. And demand them to be bigger. Heaven help me when it's a modder that wants them, because they'll go and make them.

But they dont work in terms of saving your commander from air snipes. i hope you guys are planning on having some serious anti-aa turrets with huge *** splash to prevent these

Heaven would help you to uninstall the mod.

bad poll

ohai

Do you have interal knowlage about the types of base defenses which will be in the game and when yes, are you allowed to share them with us?

-Will it be possible to shoot down incomming missiles with an laser array.And when yes will there be mobile defence lasers mounted on somethin fast like buggys or motorbikes?

Yes i said that. In many mordern sci-fi movies are no shields involved.

Yes its propably possible to build some plasmabased magnetic flowcontrolled shields around objects in the future. This kind of technology is actually rigth now in use inside of experimental fusion reactors. But making it mobile with this kind of massiv energy consumption , which is needet for the electric flow which creates the magnetic containment, its another story .

Energieshields are esoteric cool looking gadgets, which some producers like george lucas build in their movies from time to time in purpose of giving them this,fan desired, trashy feeling .

Yes maybe shields would work if they could not pass each other and stack into each other. It boils down to the point how they are implemented. If it would be in a belivable way so that the player could identify with them on the screen then ok.

Supreme Commander 2 looked really caotic, with all of this shields clumbing up getting into each other + the laser fire everywhere. It was the oposit of clearly laid out.
Beside of the ,in my eyes, missing micro, these two things are the only things which i would critic in supreme commander.

Superweapons are fun! They should be scary like a monster comming after you,
when you play against them. But they should not be unstopable, so that an bad player who has stacked up metall and energie because he had not the apm to spend it in time, should not be able to make some superunits and win with them, if his oponent only build "normal units".

But yes plz lots of scary superunits.But units which can be counterd.

Is it possible to ensure that the forum software adds a "This poll is bad, and I should feel bad for posting it" option to all future polls? There really are starting to be too many of these things.

No cmon, almost every scifi installment that has ever been has energy shields of some sort, in fact the only one I can think of that doesn't right now is Babylon5 (with exceptions!) and I don't even see that being unrealistic. Big blobs of energy like in star wars 1 of course kind of are, but some sort of non-armour protection around stuff really isn't that unrealistic.