Factions/Unit Set

Hello,

I talked with my dad and he wondered why, why only one unit set? He meant in TA and SupCom were more than one too and only one as setting doesnt that kill the reason of the big war and make it little bit useless, doesnt it? (That doesn't mean we dont want the game anymore, just wondering) He meant with 1,2m only one unit set? Well I couldnt really respond him much than with it's cheaper. So I want provoke this topic and ask why only one unit set? Or do you think about making 2 Factions same unit set, just 1-2 units different?

Will it not boring after 2-3 12h games of only one unit set? Is it really a big deal to create another unit set? I mean, when you have the structure for the units, then you only need to make the sprites, animation and effects... the biggest deal would be the balancing, I think. Which can be made from your alpha and beta tester.

Do you want surprise us with an DLC with a newer faction like "In the big Galaxy, a wild new Faction appeared, the UberCore " .. ? xD Well I would be satisfied with an DLC too.

Thats not a complain! I just ask for more understandable reason than cheaper.

yours Yourtime

Re: Fractions/Unit Set

I want 2 from the beginning. This is a wargame, there needs to be at least two sides, good and bad, black and white, ying and yang, arm and core... I could go on forever. I don't want to identify with just a single commander, I need whole faction... and minimum 2 to choose from, with each having their on motives and interessts. I just don't like the idea of everyone having the same units, but I guess I could change my mind if it works out well.

Re: Fractions/Unit Set

Given the choice I'd rather a more fleshed out base army rather than the division in dev time.

More factions would be nice in future though.

Re: Fractions/Unit Set

With that logic, SupCom should get boring after 2-3 twelve hour games against each faction. That hasn't happened to me in the however-many-thousand hours of gametime I've spent over the past five and a half years.

Those are all very very expensive things to make. You can't properly budget time and money to invent something new. Since it's an iterative process, you'll try something, and modify it, again and again until you get it right.

Still, I've love to see some fractions in PA;

Re: Fractions/Unit Set

well 'logic' I guess there is some difference between only one fraction and more than one. I know that from hero academy, I play the game now for over 6 months non-stop and it is actually a mobilde roundbased strategy game, but because of the different fractions its always something new. I downloaded the chinese version and have there only one fraction and well it doesnt make so much fun than beeing able to have several fractions. So I dont think you can see it so linear. Additionally the 12h were an reference to the feature 12h+ games with over 40 people.

Hm, well I agree and I know that developing is an lifecycle, but on the other side I dont think that (specially) uber has no idea for other units, the balancing would be able to come mostly from the users.

Anyway, I understand that in the release it is important to finish the game with their skretch goals or minimum. I just hope they will think about an addon, with more fractions.

PS: what did you mean with that diagramm? Is it about the develope time you need mostly?

Re: Fractions/Unit Set

I actually really like having only one faction, and they have explained why more factions wouldn't make sense see the interview with total biscuit.

They could maybe have something that makes you have to choose which kind of warlord you want to be and then balance things out so it pays of better to keep that general direction of game play.

For an example you could be a person who really like to capture enemy stuff, the more units you have with the ability to capture the easier it is to give another unit that ability.

or if you want to be a explosive war lord, the more explosive based units you build the cheaper other explosives will be, something along those lines.

or, an explorer warlord who's building mostly of transportation units, at some point he receives an upgrade from having a lot of those units making you able to defend the transporters without any defensive units, or speed increase.

I don't really know if I want that to be a part of the game and making it a mod would probably better but I hope they make it so there is some type of variation between the teams so it's not just "let's move these units back and forth until a hole appears in his units that he moving back and forth, so we can destroy a vital building and then win the game on that (Que supcom2)"

Re: Fractions/Unit Set

• Fraction
• Faction

Re: Fractions/Unit Set

Sorry and thank you! I corrected it!

I see, sorry didnt read it completely yet, I will use that as chance to read it now.

That sounds like extra 'skills' for deciding your own goal in the game/match. Sounds actually interesting too.

Re: Fractions/Unit Set

@thedbp

I don't see why these points are speaking for one faction... same could be achived with 2 sides. To me TA is the perfect example: 2 sides & tons units, for all kinds of players and tactics. I loved all the units, even though I though some of them were unnecessary.

So I really don't see why having one faction with lots of units (a lot more than one side in TA) would be a good thing...

I really want one faction, RTS games become rock paper scissors when you start to introduce more factions, one unit counters another *snore*, nearly all other rts games do this and i want PA to be the game changer, plus it make more sense from a story perspective, they are machines that use the most effective tools they can, why would there be different designs in this scenario.

I'm cool with having one faction. It works well in Zero K. I do think that some soft lock-in to a unit set based on early game decisions would help to give games variety e.g. starting with a vehicle factory is soft lock-in to a vehicle based game.

For instance make factories slightly expensive, or maybe introduce a research system (like SC2 a bit but just unlocking units, not so many buffs).

Was TA rock paper scissors? I don't think so. I don't want PA to have factions like in Star Craft either.

well, if you take a look at the warfare that nations like USA, Russia or China use, you could say they all use the most effective tools up to date. They all have tanks, subs, jets and ships... and still they have all their own unique looks and differ in some points.

TA did it all well.

Also, I'd rather see more factory types (for instance adding in hovers, amphibious units, jumpjet units, insectoid units, fleshed out orbital units) as full unit trees instead of a new faction. I am actually 100% behind a single, diverse unit set available to all players.

People seem hung up on factions. Complaining that there is only "one" faction. This is wrong, there is as many factions as there are players(well not quite, as seems they will implement team play of one faction(or team)). Neutrino has said as much in his IAMA, one set of units does not preclude factions. it just means each faction is not limited by game creators. :twisted:

Each and every commander is a faction. :shock:

Skins for commanders good.
Skins for units..... maybe, but can be abused in gameplay.
Limiting units based on arbitrary pay/play to win is BAD. Very, Very BAD. :cry:

*insert do not want poster here*

I just wish I could talk to my father about games too.

I in general prefer having factions for diversity and long-term variance in game play.

That said, I understand that from a development point of view, using just one faction reduces the development efforts for unit design and balancing considerably and initially, that sounds like a reasonable way to go.

Also, I think it's more honest than just painting the units differently and calling them a new faction. I can't stand so called factions where the only real difference is the visual style, while the game play behaviour is nearly identical.

So if they decide later on to add another real faction, I'm all for it. Just make sure it's a real faction not a tour through the paint shop .

Argh, to repeat Neutrino's comment - one pool of units is not the same as one faction! We don't have any detail yet on exactly how it'll be implemented, but current info strongly suggests there will be more than one faction drawing from the single unit pool. Maybe it'll be something like civilisation with shitloads of factions and a couple of special units for each faction, maybe there will be 100 units and two factions who each have access to 70. But everything they've said so far implies there will be multiple factions.

depends on how you define factions. My personal definition is based on the unit types used. If they are functionally the same they are the same faction. That they have different visuals or story context would be secondary.
If you work with subsets of the total unit type set you can create faction or specialization, whatever you want to call them.
In the end we have to see how they want to handle this.


PS: analogy in the world of MMORPGs, if two factions have exactly the same classes they aren't real functional factions, just storywise. In a MMORPGs this might be enough to provide a bit of diversity, but in a RTS which is based more on function, that wouldn't be enough.

One faction is fine. As said earlier, Zero-K manages well with only one faction ; in fact, their philosophy is more like "one lab = one faction". The variations you would have in several factions are found between labs, you have the Cybran-like cloak bot lab, the Aeon-like hover lab, the more generic plane lab that everyone has anyway...

Lore-wise, one faction fits better here, the 'everyone is their own faction' is interesting, with everyone having simply picked the best hardware from everyone.
Also, even if there are multiple armies with varied hardware, if they could they would probably prefer picking the most adapted from each constructor. And that's what many do, by buying, making under licence or copying foreign hardware.

But more generally, I can't stand when there are 2 faction. Black and white, good and evil, I often find it plain childish, and you can't take a third option. That's what StarCraft did well (did, not do, unfortunately), with three factions with their own divisions, groups, alliances... That what SupCom could have done well, if the campaign had been better storytelling-wise.

Hello,

I appologize for reviving an old thread, but theres so much of this -- every time someone mentions f(r)actions, there is this long-winded discussion about Starcraft, gameplay and balance that I will never understand or care about.

I can understand the developers not wanting to invest time into supporting an outdated concept they chose not to support (I know how they feel). But if PA is a game about awesome, I have always found it awesome to be able to choose Core/Cybran, because it felt like (even though it was probably not the case) that their backstory supported them being edged in a direction durring the game. E.g.: The cybran being a little better at construction, because their construction drones seemed more elaborate than the others'. The unit art kindof grows on this.

I don't care how it affects gameplay, I just think it's important for players to be able to identify a little bit with their units in the game. Choosing what to build or focus on in game, that you'll be maxing-out on every game anyway, is just not the same...

Worst case scenario I guess I'll be choosing "Red", but it'd be nice to have something more.

LP,
Jure