Competitive MNC?

Hey Combat fans, how's it hangin'?

I have been throwing the idea of organized MNC around with some of my buddies for a while now, and I wanted to at least get the conversation started here on the forums. With the move to PC, Uberent has opened up the opportunities to take MNC to another level. If they would throw their support behind such a movement, maybe cranking out some competitive configs and supporting some of our needs, MNC could flourish as a competitive game.

I come from a competitive TF2 background, also played some GA agency stuff, but I find MNC to be a nice smooth blend of the two with some really nice traits. It's a lot more forgiving than TF2 but has a much simpler metagame than GA. This, I think, makes it a very good game for competition--plus it's already spectator friendly with Mickey Cantor and the sports theme. The real questions I want answered, though, are about the format of comp MNC.

If MNC were played competitively, what would the rules be?

• 6v6 or something else?
• Class limits? One of each?
• How to decide matches? Best of 3?

Maybe if we can flesh these things out and get a little momentum, we can ask Uberent to work on a competitive mode and start organizing.

Actually, there are already tournies on xbox 360 version of this game. if the threads in that section are to be believed.

Only thing I can think of off hand for competitive MNC is more control over the server setup.

Disable team randomization per round
Allow players to pick teams
Allow map selection
Class limits 2
Demo recording server-side and client-side
Spectator slots (a revisit to UTV would be sweet)
GUID manager

Balancing beyond that I'm not sure as I have yet to try an organized game on MNC.

I know that there have supposedly been tournaments on Xbox, but it's really different on PC. To really become a strong competitive community, a lot of community support would have to come forward sometime before the game gets too old.

If you personally think that you would be interested in playing competitively, post your thoughts on the OP. I'm curious what people think about class limits. Coming from TF2, I see class limits as a very negative thing to have at all, but I feel that if we did have them, teams should still have room to experiment. Instead of a TF2-esque system which allows two of some classes and one of others, I'd rather see a universal limit of two of each class (yes, even the annoying classes ).

Thoughts? Anyone else excited for this?

Class limits were pretty universally seen as a good thing in the TF2 competitive scene. A few leagues tried no class limits, multiple medics make the game very boring and force both teams to run almost half the team as medic. I don't think MNC would need class limits as teams seem to have a pretty good mix of classes with Xbox teams.

The most needed thing is a way to organize teams. If teams are random, 6v6 is impossible.

I think this is where teams come in. They are made, but not so sure on the PC. I do see people use tags, but usually to a more humorously(or lack thereof) effect.

I'm not sure if there is a way to form a team in-game and play against other teams. I don't think there is though.

There also needs to be seperate dedicated servers for this, which should be funded by player donations to try and get a good dedi server, where lag won't affect the gameplay as much.

On the two per class, I agree with that. That's the most fair and more balanced way to make teams.

I'm not sure I wanna be competitive though. I just don't have a quick mind like xeno. When I see him play, he's really fast at deciding what to do and when. That's amazing, but it's a different discussion.

Actually, now that I think about that, I'm suggesting to the developers to make a spectator mode. This allows the community to record games for a tournie and allows other players to see how others would play, if they'd like to do so.

As for the tournie format, I think it would be pretty straight forward. It depends on how many teams would like to play though.

I agree with the class limits - it would be a pretty strange game facing say 3 snipers and 3 assassins for example - there needs to be a balance.

I would like something like HLTV to record/stream games or at very least a spectator mode

A clan system would be good where we could join a clan and the system would put us in the same team or the ability to create a custom team each time to allow for flexibility.

I definitely agree in the need for a competitive mode/config/script (not sure about the terminology/implementation). Right now you CAN in fact switch teams, but only using console. Really what we need is a UI for switching teams, which is only activated in "tournament mode". The way it would work is an admin gets into the server, puts on a password and tournament mode, and then lets the teams get ready and play around to warm-up in the mean time. Then when a team gets their six set up, they would all say something (this is directly ripped from TF2) like !ready in chat, to indicate that they're all set to go.

In TF2 I think that this sort of thing is handled by sourcemod, but I don't know much about servers and so I wonder whether this HAS to be created by Uberent, or whether the Unreal engine has some kind of extension that would allow for a community created config.

And while I think the advent of class limits is of course a good thing, I also think that it has made the TF2 community bitter and very conservative. If the class limits (and classes played) remain stagnant solely because that's the way they've always been, there's something wrong. Hopefully MNC can avoid that pitfall, given that it seems relatively balanced, simpler, and less prone to griefing/elitism.

-FoX

If Uberent sets it up and names the prizes I'm sure teams will form. Maybe a bit of advertising for the forums could help too. Then someone can host the server and people can play.

Maybe tournament for EU, UK, US and Asia, to sort connections or something. Best out of 3 is the usual competitive way.

This is a liiiiiiittle cart before horse, but ok. How about the PC community starts up a league akin to UGC vice ESEA (no subscription fee) and vote/agree on some constraints for an MNC tournament? That's too easy.

Priorities though should be server and client stability, which I'm sure you'd agree. No one likes to play a tournament in the middle of a fight only to have the game cut short by a fatal exception error.

Another thing that might need to be changed is Overtime. The core game seems ok but once overtime hit it realy changes the game and this might be magnified in compediteve play.

No perk increases and draining moneyballs in OT might be better, as I've seen too many matches that OT determine the match more than the first 20 minutes of the game (unless its a rush that stomps the team in minutes of gamestart).

I'm bumping this, because it needs to be bumped.

I don't mean to sound elitist or anything, but so many rounds of this game are become extremely boring for me, simply because the majority of people on servers tend to be very casual/inattentive. Almost every round, there are about 2 outcomes:

1. A team turtles hardcore. This delays the game until overtime, where the turtling team is promptly facerolled.

2. A team is facerolled in the early minutes of the game.

This isn't to say all rounds play out like this, but there are very few games where I've been actually -satisfied- with how the round has played out. A satisfying round for me would be where both teams are constantly trying to push the enemy team's lanes, trying to sneak around and punch holes in the oppositions defenses, where all players are in fact trying pretty hard to create a challenge for the other team. This doesn't seem to occur often, however, and because of it, I'm frequently finding myself bored.

I really believe that people on the PC need to start forming teams/"clans" of some sort, or at least express some INTEREST in joining teams, since I think that if we at least get some of the more hardened players interested, particular server owners would be happy to help set up scrim matches and etc. (although this is a pretty big presumption).

Long story short, EXPRESS INTEREST in teams. If nobody really does, I don't think any competitive community will emerge in a reasonable time frame. On top of it I think everyone will find they're having a more enjoyable experience overall... so yeah. My two cents.

(I also know that this patch has brought forth some team balancing changes and such, but I've yet to see them. I guess we'll see if things get better for casual play over the next few days while server owners sort out the current patch problems.)

No need to form teams when there is no opposition.

If there is enough interest by people to form leagues then leagues will be formed; simple as that.

Having said that if any of the leagues go all adminface and try to dictate some inane rulesets (like: no hazards, no overtime, no juicepurch) then I'm just gonna laugh and walk away.

Throwing it out there for people: Pay note to the system ETF2L uses, their rules suck but their website is the best leaguesite I ever had the pleasure to navigate.

See you on the other side

Well, there is a team that wants balanced games, if it's any consolation.

http://steamcommunity.com/groups/MNCTeamBacon

It's here in the forums, IIRC, but I have to search for it again and bump it.

@grimbar yea, I wouldn't want to end up with leagues that use stupid rules. I'd rather want the game to be played with all the things the game has to offer. It might be fun in a while, but only with friends or something jsut to have fun.

I highly disagree with this, because it's just so untrue. I consider this community to be relatively small, and one can typically come across the same face fairly frequently across servers. However, it's also large enough to a point where good players are relatively scattered across the servers, and don't really collectively group up on any particular one...

Point is, the opposition IS there, but definitely not consolidated. But I think the community is small enough to a point where people could easily gather up if they wanted to. That's sort of why I think people should start trying to form some teams...

EDIT: And thanks for the link, warrior. Should probably have its own thread if it doesn't already.

Have yet to find enough competent EU low-pingers to form a good doublemix. Please enlighten me

Sorry, haven't played in any EU servers, but our group "Team Bacon" can be full of both EU and USA players. I just was hoping to create a group of people that do normally positive in their k/d and support the team play that is meant to be had in this game. Not just running and gunning for kills until overtime.

<American for starters, so that probably doesn't help things.

Players I have seen that I can recall the names of right off the top of my head are:

Killz
Marmalade
Tre'
ilYoung
Artur
And some guy's name I can only describe as being a bunch of vertical bars (but he's pretty good)

These are just some of the people that I've seen that have actually given me trouble in matches, and have generally made the match more interesting overall. There are people who seriously do have potential, but they are pretty scattered. Sorry I don't have a list the size of Mount Rushmore, but I just can't remember anymore right now. They're out there, and they know who they are.

I agree, there's lots of players that ive come across that have potential.

I just need to ask next chance I get for steam invitation to anyway that would like to join this "group".

If we could all concentrate joining in the same servers, eventually games wouldn't be completely one sided. Some players will be better than others, but at least it wouldn't be total domination.

I think MNC has huge potential as a competitive game with relatively few changes from how it behaves casually - I don't think setting any rules on it too early is a particularly good idea, though, and especially concerning class limits. Class limits were only implemented in TF2 by most people after realizing that stacking certain things had a detrimental effect on the pace of the game. TF2 in general is a more lopsided equation - only Soldier, Demoman and Medic can always have use in any setting in TF2, with Scout being right behind them in terms of his general versatility. Half of the classes in TF2 are situational, and I don't see that as much in MNC, at least not yet. Everyone seems to be able to compete, and indeed the generally largest successes I've observed come from teams with one of every class represented.