[Community UberBalance] Official Feedback Thread

Discussion in 'Balance Discussions' started by mered4, July 31, 2014.

  1. mered4

    mered4 Post Master General

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    First, a questionnaire!

    1) Are Vanguards Overpowered??
    2) Are Shellers way too good at EVERYTHING?
    3) Do you want to use Dox to shred things again?
    4) Do you miss using Nuclear Weapons?

    If you answered yes or hell yes or just sorta to any of the above questions, the Community UberBalance mod is for you!

    We want you to have a say in how the balance in this game works. To that end, we are done talking about it. Let's do it. The developers have, quite frankly, stopped listening to us on the subject of balance. Maybe if they see how well this slightly tweaked balance works, things will change.

    Here's an updated log of what we changed and a little of the why:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-AvBb9hT23Coqo88DccszRJ5OLQ0XVYAsV8294DDZxQ

    What we need from you:

    1) We need your feedback. Tell us what you think is screwed up with either the CURRENT UberBalance or the COMMUNITY UberBalance.
    2) We need you ideas. Telling us what the problem is great, but what's even better is if we had plenty of solutions. Give us yours! Maybe you'll see it implemented!
    3) Install this mod, get some friends together, and test it like no other. Record your games, post your replays, explain your strategies!

    Installing the Community UberBalance Mod:

    Grab the latest install from here:
    https://github.com/Stuart1998/Community-Uber-Balance.git

    Unzip the Release file into C:\Users\%NAME%\AppData\Local\Uber Entertainment\Planetary Annihilation\server_mods. If there is no such folder, make one.

    If you have PAMM, simply open it up, click the SERVER MODS tab, and enable the Community UberBalance. If you do NOT have PAMM, do the following:
    1. Open notepad. Enter this code:
      Code:
      {
          "mount_order": [
              "com.stuart98.communityuberbalance"
          ]
      }
    2. Save the file as mods.json.
    Now you can just open up your PA client, start a game, and you will be able to host games with the mod for your friends! Make sure anyone joining the game changes the MODDED GAMES filter in the lobby to 'Any' or 'Modded Games'.
    -----------------------------------

    Let's inject some more AWESOME into the game!
    cdrkf, brianpurkiss and stuart98 like this.
  2. cptconundrum

    cptconundrum Post Master General

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    Before this thread gets moved to the mod forum, I just want to say this.

    I usually agree with keeping mod threads in the mod forum, but this one is a little different. How many times have people recommended a small balance change, arguing that it would be better, only to be answered with "Prove it"? I haven't tried this mod but it looks like the goal is to keep the same design philosophy as vanilla but slightly change unit stats to see what happens. Trial and error is a useful part of the vanilla balance discussion.
    cdrkf, stuart98 and mered4 like this.
  3. BradNicholson

    BradNicholson Uber Employee Uber Alumni

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  4. mjshorty

    mjshorty Well-Known Member

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    its like as if Uber doesnt even play their own game besides Brad and Metabolical
    ace63 likes this.
  5. mered4

    mered4 Post Master General

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    Two things about this super short sentence:

    1) Download the Mod
    2) Test it's balance

    Awesome? AWESOME.
    ArchieBuld likes this.
  6. elodea

    elodea Post Master General

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    Vanguard
    You over-reacted and removed the real utility of vanguards. 2500 hp is paper. It's basically the same hp per metal cost as t1 tanks (~2), and way worse than infernos (~4).

    You've also reduced the damage to 1000, but this doesn't really do anything as it's still the ammount of damage required to one shot any t1 unit. Commander's won't die as quickly, but they'll still die.

    Sheller
    Again, the damage change has not really changed much. It will still one shot everything it could before, only now faster and harder to dodge the shell spam due to rof increase (except for t2 bots).

    The range decrease also means it now cannot perform it's one unique function - kill turtles. Pelters have 260 range, and catapults have 240. Now that vanguards cannot tank enough damage to kill turtles, this is even more especially important.

    Dox
    10 accel and 10 brake feels bad and is unnecessary for addressing any current balance issues. If someone wants to spend time dodging tank shells, so be it. He's not paying attention to his macro.

    The hp, cost and dmg changes are also unnecessary. You've basically consolidated the current 2x 45 metal dox into a 1x 85 metal dox. Not really much actual change here.

    Range increase are good, but i don't know about the vision change. The necessity to have skitter + dox seems to be necessary for the current meta in order to force 2 factories before you can effectively harass. Being able to harass effectively off just 1 factory type is very strong timings wise.


    Basically, i applaud your efforts and love that you're trying to actually physically mod balance changes, but i have no idea what exactly you're trying to accomplish with a few of these number changes. That said, keep on rockin mered!
    Last edited: August 1, 2014
    Jaedrik, cptconundrum and stuart98 like this.
  7. mot9001

    mot9001 Well-Known Member

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    Sorian also played the game and there was spawn anywhere in that game, so he and i spawned right next to eachother and he beat me there eventually. It was pretty cool and i think he might beat Brad or Meta aswell.
  8. mered4

    mered4 Post Master General

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    Elodea, did you actually play it or did you analyze it?

    Vanguards:
    Ofc I removed their utility! They shouldn't be cost effective vs T1 units. Mind, the vanguard can still one shot anything and the slower RoF means it cant stroll through a base or kill commanders instantly. It's still insanely good - it just can be countered in four different practical ways:

    1) Mass Ants
    2) Bombers
    3) Mass Dox
    4) T2 Bots or MORE T2 Vehicles

    Shellers:

    T2 Bots are more effective against them now, and with the splash damage decrease, they cannot eat through T1 armies as easily. They still perform their role of long range bombardment, it's just countered by the pelter and T2 Naval. (not even counting air lol)

    Dox:

    Did you even test it bro? This is what made me question if you had. YOU HAVE TO, to see WHY and HOW GOOD this change is.
    Last edited: August 1, 2014
  9. vorell255

    vorell255 Active Member

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    I tried it out. I still think it needs some more tweaking. I do like the overall shift of t2 vehicles (Shellers and Vanguards) don't instant win you the game, and the dox is actually much more worth wild to build.

    My thoughts:
    Sheller: Needs to be good against static base defense and crap against any kind of mobile army. People have been suggesting that it has to stop to fire, that may be worth trying out. With the changes as they are now I don't know that they are good enough against static defenses, mostly because of the range nerf.

    Vanguard: Should be able to tank and take out units but shouldn't be able to survive against a mass of T1 units.

    Dox: I liked them better without the acc and brake change.
  10. mered4

    mered4 Post Master General

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    I might change it to be a turn change, if I didnt have the acc and braking change we would have issues with micro.
  11. vorell255

    vorell255 Active Member

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    I agree with @elodea, if someone wants to spend their time microing let them, they aren't able to do that and pay attention to macro.
    stuart98 likes this.
  12. mered4

    mered4 Post Master General

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    You haven't played against Custard.

    I gave him micro-able dox. He wiped me clean with them when I went tanks.

    EDIT: I could revert the change and make it so tanks have faster projectile speed.
  13. exterminans

    exterminans Post Master General

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    Faster projectiles in general (for all kinetic weapons) would surely help at getting rid of manual dodging.

    This includes dodging medium range arty like Shellers and T1 arty.


    Did you try to strip Shellers from their AoE in return for faster projectiles?
    Basically turning them into the tactical sniper for the vehicle tech tree. Faster projectiles make them much more consistent both against players with and without heavy micro, while removing AoE forces them to focus on targets with high HP and lowers the impact they have against low tier armies.

    Not advocating the same change for T1 arty.
    T1 arty is essentially a crowd control point defense which is designed to take out low tier armies.

    While the catapult is mostly for taking out Inferno/Vaguard class units from a safe distance, so it's basically the stationary counter part to Shellers, with the important limitation of being deniable.
    Even more so, now that Vanguard lost it's extreme health boost.
  14. mered4

    mered4 Post Master General

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    I didn't give the shellers anything when we took out the aoe. Actually, it was originally Stuarts idea - I agreed after a couple games of sheller spam and sheller domination, which were after their original adjustment.

    IMHO, t1 arty is incredibly underwhelming. It has crap damage, bad projectile speed, and inaccuracy. It takes forever to kill things unless you have 7-8 of them - at which point, even the shellers in this mod have more utility. It's a difficult problem, and I haven't seen an optimal solution yet. I assume that the devs have the same issue- they can't think of some way to make it better without making it OP.

    The catapult is another line defense unit that needs a second look. Maybe later, after the next balance update.

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