Combat Engineers, UNIT idea

In SupCom we really only had engineers and SCU as field workers, but engineers were too fragile, and the SCU was a major, late game unit.
I propose a tech 2 engineer with heightened armour, and reduced build power that can be included in an assault force to repair units, build weapon emplacements, and reclaim wreckage.
I like this because it adds options, and allows for tactical decisions...do I include an engineer, reducing the overall power of my attack, but increasing it's versatility, or do I go full combat units for more DPS?

I think any unit that allows for choice, and therefore tactical decision making is good idea.

Thoughts?

That sounds pretty cool! You could do alot with it if you get your multitasking right, something I like alot! also having engineers would reduce the amount of workers you'd have to waste on keeping heavy units alive(that is if workers are able to repair "living" units).

Like the useless UEF Sparky?

I've never played Forged Alliance, mind explaining why it is so useless?

'twas terrible at everything.

I see, so I have to play the actual game to experience this horrific unit?

It was basically the unit described in the OP: had a gun, some armour, could slowly build point defence, shields, and radar. Didn't do anything effectively enough to justify it's presence.

I think it was balanced that way so it wouldn't become overpowered. If you have to run such a fine line between too useless and too useful, Combat Engineers might be a categorically bad idea.

Nonsense, all it takes is testing and adjustments. Just because Gas Powered didn't get it right, doesn't mean Uber Entertainment can't or won't be able to.

Give them some sort of specialisation, such as an area regen buff, or a better ability to repair other units, and then we might get talking. Balancing a unit that has the abilities of two other units is very difficult. Think Restorer, for instance.

Oh, you mean the Aeon unit that could account for 100% of the combat units built up to unit cap...yes, fun times! This is why I did not suggest a direct offensive ability given to the combat engineer, merely armour a normal engineer for a higher build cost.

Well, no, that wasn't the Restorer's problem. Especially if you compare with such units such as the Janus and the Corsair which were comparatively useless.

So, anyway, increased armour, and reduced build speed. If I was asked to balance that to ensure it's useful, I would scream and run away. As I said, give it a specialisation, then we can talk.

The idea of an engineer that forms part of an army and repairs on the go also sounds very micro intensive, which wouldn't fit with the grand scale of PA methinks. Engineers typically also need to stop in order to repair or undertake any other actions, and as part of an army in the hands of a skilled player, I don't think it would ever be allowed to stop.

This is why I said it might be categorically a bad idea.

If you need a pro. player to make adequate use of it, then it'll be useless for 95% of the population. If it's useless for so many, in a game that people are screaming for reduced busywork, then it's a bad thing to implement.

Conversely, if it's adequate for 95% of the population, it'll be absolute rape in the hands of a pro. player. If it's overpowered for some... then it's a bad thing to implement.

yxalitis, do you understand why I qualified my statement with

I'm pretty sure a combat engineer- an engineer with heavier armor and maybe a light weapon to fend off lone raiders- could be balanced just by increased cost instead of reducing individual build power; do you go for one frontline sturdy builder, or two defenceless ones?

Am I wrong on this?

Sure! Testing solves most problems, I'd say that it's a better idea to try this out instead of just automatically thinking that it wont work because someone else couldn't make it work properly. Maybe it doesn't work out, but at least they tried? Better than never knowing. Or is this gibberish?

How about giving it the ability to repair units while on the move. Forget giving it a gun, and make the repair rate slow enough that it won't impact active combat too much, but rather, so it can repair units while an army is repositioning after an skirmish. And having them somewhere between an engineer and a standard tank in terms of defence.

Sounds like a substitute for a shield bot.

That would be like Terrans from StarCraft sending SCVs to repair their Thors in battle, wouldn't it?

I don't think you should look at FA for inspiration when you think about a combat engineer since repair was expensive and t1 engineers was dirt cheap.
You would only need the occasional t2 engineer to make defences, TMLs and such.

There's the Welder in Zero-K. It's the engineer from the heavy tank factory, and while it has the same build power than other (land) engineers, it has more HP, a gun and is quite more expensive.
It's balanced because it can fend off a few raiders by itself, so you don't need to cover it with your own raiders, like with other factories. Which is convenient, because, obviously, the heavy tank don't have light raiders.
So it has a niche in early game. OTOH, I don't know what kind of niche a mid/late game specialized unit like that would have, when you already have other engineers.

I'd hardly call SCV repair "slow".

Conceptually, I can see the point to a heavily armored engineer, but I'm not sure if it's really something you need as a front-line repair unit. More like a front-line builder that generates structures outside of your base without being sniped by a stray missile.

In that regard, it could probably use an extra ability that protects the structure it is bringing up as well. That'd give you an engineer that can build under fire, which might make it worth the cost. And it'd have its own specialization.