Classes and how they work

Is there any hope of a better nerf patch?

Assaults: jump ability is way too OPed simply 'cause they can easy get right next to the ledge where the spawn/money ball is for the other team, and their grenade launcher does a lot of damage.

Assassain: there's been enough threads about this...if not here, then on Steam.

Tank: their rail gun can mow down pretty much anyone easily.

Gunner: surprisingly I can't think of anything that's OPed about this class.

No, this isn't a troll thread...but, since UE decided to nerf the sniper for some reason, why not nerf the other classes as well as they are OPed in some way as well.

Sounds like a rant..

but:

Asssault: needs to have his recharge timers increased, point blank.. bomb/charge are far to spammable, which makes him OP as hell. His money ball killing ability is because of poor map design, (the catwalks) which allow him to Line of site turrets and still murder the money ball with Bombs, his nade launcher doesnt hit the money ball THAT hard compared to similar weapons.

Sniper: needed the nerf to body shot damage, learn to aim, and this will only effect your chances of getting lucky.

Gunner: has amazing turret killing abilities, and is best when paired with a support. however Gunner/support is the strongest support pair by far, he becomes a beast when his teamates are good, hes not a team carrying class like a good assault or assassin can be.

Assassin: will probably be next on the choping block, though I think assault should be personally, and his nerf will probably be to lunge in some way shape or form.

Support: is perfect IMO, Though I'd like to see the ability to blow up your firebase, from anywhere on the map, but only gain time back if you do so from ontop of it..

Tank: railgun only mows you down if you let it.. period... his charge 3 is what makes him amazing, but I think its balance is good.. as he's slow as hell, learn to fight him at just beyond charge distance, and hes not as powerful as he seems.



Thats the way I see it...

In my opinion the game is pretty well balanced. Any nerfs/buffs at this point should be very small.

Tank is strong enough to slap the **** out of an assault if he pursues around a corner. Done this many times to know, a lvl3 charge is a death sentence to asssaults. He is actually the safest and most dependable bot pusher in the game, assassins can push bots against other assassins but not the tank.

Assassin's can be predicted and stopped in every way shape and form currently. Even when juiced, think about that lvl3 charge I talked about earlier. Then combine that with his railgun grapple (which launches).

Gunners really are the best on a competent team. Assaults don't counter them, assaults are killed in less than a second, a gunner is killed in 2-3. Gunners carry a higher overheal, since their base health is already higher; Assaults carry a lower overheal and aren't easy for a support to stay with and heal anyway. Gunners have 2 weapons that do their jobs better than the assaults.

Supports can do some shotgun shennanigans on pc. Nevertheless, their massively unique and useful skills make them vital to a team in the same way their direct firepower makes them useless in Deathmatch.

Snipers got their nerf. They have low armor and can be hit from an arc anyway. Today, I spend 5 minutes of a game flinging product nade over a wall and repetitively hitting a sniper. After 5 minutes, I got headshotted, upgraded from 2 to 3, and killed him twice with the next two hits.

ONLY RECOMMENDED NERF, SMALL NERF -> Assaults could actually use moneyball damage reduction in my opinion. A juiced assault can take down 1/2 a moneyball. He can do this from the center of steelpeel, or the elbow, even if the enemy has all lvl3.3 rokkits. 20%-30% or so on both his bomb and grenades would be nice, still make him top moneyball killer. Other things people complain about him aren't true, he is "ownable". Plus, he is terrible at cracking open turrets and not the best at pushing bots.

Most of the problems with assaults vs moneyball has to do with map design rather than the assault himself. Once again I believe that the bomb simply needs to have its "attach" damage removed from moneyball and he'd be fine.

His grenade launcher only does 75damage per shot to the moneyball with gold RoF thats 750damage every 7seconds + 2.8seconds for a reload. So ~75dmg per second. Moneyball has 10,000health.

For comparison: the support's hurt/heal gun with gold rof does 85damage per second to the money ball.
The gunner is doing ~180 damage per second to the moneyball with dual minigun
The sniper's flak is doing ~120 damage per second to the moneyball (if upped to level 3)
Assassin with sword (and no rof endorsement) is doing 150dmg per second to moneyball
Tank without using RoF or using product grenades can do ~99damage per second to moneyball with jetgun.

The issue is not the damage of the grenade launcher (which is the lowest in the game currently) its the SAFETY he gains by using it via rebounds. Its the same issue people have with the sniper, its simply too much reward for not enough risk (I'm not saying this is currently the case with the sniper as I have yet to test the new changes, I'm saying this is the issue people have put forward previously as why they hate him.)

Also the assaults bomb skill does nearly 1000damage per use even if not attached directly to the moneyball. And the fact he is able to keep the money ball shield down thanks to high mobility (similar to the assassin in this respect.) This is the issue.

Assault with Gold ROF cracks turrets fine, infact hes the 2nd best at it next to gunner running that endorsement. Sure tanks is better, but hes gotta be in grapple range to do so.

I don't agree that 1v1 a gunner can take an assault. Sure out in the open, but assaults can use bomb and cover to really take him out, and a single well aimed assault rifle clip can kill him with silver or below armor. But I find that fight to be even, if skill is, certainly not one sided.

Tanks are what kill assaults most times (well kill me at least) since tanks charge 3 beats assault charge anything. And tanks can soak up the damage from anything other than a head crab. If they are good with a railgun its an easy fight if they have equal skill and tacitics.

I would argue that the assaults money ball damage doesnt need to be reduced by a %, but that rather bomb simply needs to NOT deal the headcrab "2k" damage when it is stuck to the money ball. The damn thing can't move, its not a hard shot lol, and assault has the cat walk and cover to use, where he can be safe from turrets and still 5 feet from the money ball, hes not gonna miss the head crab. I think this is what boosts his MB killing ability through the roof. And I think it should be addressed.

I also think a well played assault in general is just a bit OP (I main assault), I think his skill recharges need increased by a small %, some where in the ball park of 20%.

Thats about it, gunners are a unique class, in that the better their team is, the better they can do, they have a hard time being amazing on a crap team, due to no mobility, and if caught out in the open they are minced meat to class's like assault, who can hit and run them down, and charge behind cover when the gunner finnaly gets a bead on them. But good god, on a good team, a great gunner can feel like the most op thing in the game, hes a walking powerhouse, if hes got buddies to keep the flies off his back.

I hate to have to go test this, but assault damage, especially while juiced, is stronger than killing the moneyball in 40 seconds, even if by a few seconds, especially in overtime with the damage boost. Hate to say it, but the gunner doesn't do MORE damage than it, that is absolutely without a doubt impossible, it takes him over 2 minutes by himself to.

The assault grenade, the assault bomb (notice he has 2 stackable sources), the support shotgun, the support airstrike (stackable, but not as bad), and the tank jetgun (perferably deploy3), and the assassin shurikens... do the most damage to moneyball.

The assault getting 30% nerf on both would fix the problem. I hit the moneyball from the farthest angle I can get on it, the grenades while juiced are plenty. If you don't have a deploy gunner stop an assault from getting in that assaninely cliche spot on the upper moenyball ring, you deserve for the resulting bomb to do 100% moneyball damage. It isn't like you can't see him, he is fast but not invisible.

Assaults are not that good. Heavies beat him. Especially when the team has a competent support. Supports can pretty much reverse damage from assault weapons. Grenades on turrets don't beat heal, assault rifle on pros don't beat heal in most scenarios (unless that pro just stands still at optimal assault rifle range and let's the assault unload a perfect clip without misses). Assaults may be able to fly around pretty good, but firebases don't miss no matter how much you bunnyhop.

Not needed. No class is OP. Everything is quite well balanced.

Deployed gunner in that niche, is gonna die to .5 seconds of juiced assault rifle fire on the way in man.. thats the problem..

OT bonus is 25%
Juice bonus is 300% + all crits so the assault gets an additional 25% crit damage over other classes.

So just increase the damage of grenade launcher's default by 25% and leave everyone elses alone and you'll see the numbers for how each class compares while juiced.

Lets see:
75*0.25 = 18.75 so lets round that up to 19
75+19 = 94

So lets see the numbers:
For comparison: the support's hurt/heal gun with gold rof does 85damage per second to the money ball.
The gunner is doing ~180 damage per second to the moneyball with dual minigun
The sniper's flak is doing ~120 damage per second to the moneyball (if upped to level 3)
Assassin with sword (and no rof endorsement) is doing 150dmg per second to moneyball
Tank without using RoF or using product grenades can do ~99damage per second to moneyball with jetgun.

Looks like he is no longer being beaten by every class. Now he beats the support using hurt/heal and ALMOST ties the Tank with Jetgun without any endorsements.

Assault's grenade launcher damage is fine, his rifle is even worse DPS wise vs the moneyball. However what he DOES have going for him is that his rifle is going to hit every bullet and build up juice extremely quickly. Also his bomb deals far too much damage to the money ball.

Keep in mind, the damage each classes weapons do varies on their targets
They are different for Pros, Bots, Turrets, and Moneyball. The assault does very well against turrets and pros but his bot damage and moneyball damage are fairly low.

However as I stated earlier, he can do this damage from safe locations where it is extremely difficult to counter him (unless you have a sniper)

IMO:

if it weren't for the fact that the glass catwalks allowed the assault a safe approach to bomb range (able to stick the money ball reliably), he would be totally balanced.

Truth is, if he couldn't

1) Approach money ball safely from above the turrets, using hover / charge.

2) Get into that sweet spot on the Catwalk where turrets cannot hit you.

3) and spam bomb twice in a juice.

He wouuld be fine, but he can

Charge means he can get into the catwalk taking minimum turret hits, he will NOT be stopped getting in, than hell juice. First priorty is drop a bomb on money ball, spray AR to clear anyone up top, get off about 5 nades, blow bomb, new one is ready, drop bomb, nade a few more times and fall back as juice is running out.

now rinse and repeat, only this time no juice, so just charge in, drop bomb detonate, hover charge out and repeat.

Its the sweet spot on the catwalk that needs fixing, hes able to Line of site the turrets there and thats not balanced IMO when a class has hover / charge to get there without exposing him self to turret fire or grapples what so ever.

You can put a gunner there, but hell just juice on approach, and loose a little dmg to the money ball, he still murders it.


Fix the catwalk or nerf the headcrab against moneyball.

Easier to nerf the headcrab.

Also just another note: a support's firebase on the catwalk can make the assault's attempts much harder since he can't deal with firebase upclose as well as most other classes (airstrike/minigun/flak/smoke bomb/product grenade all are extremely effective tools against the firebase, it takes i believe 10shots of grenade launcher to kill a level 3 firebase or headcrabbing it (which I'm not 100% certain 1shots it, but even if it did its a bit harder to headcrab than the money ball or pros due to its short height and small size.) It will either kill the assault, or force him to juice early (and/or waste time)

Not saying that having the firebase means that everything is A-Ok and assault doesn't need a bit of polish. Just merely pointing out there IS an option.

Your first post on the forums is about nerfing everything?

You'll fit in well here.

Did I call it, or did I call it?

"If sniper is nerfed, whining will just move on to the next in line".

Without going into details but Flak deals 100 damage a second to the core, totalling to 500 damage on level 3. (33% on core, 75 damage per tick, 4 ticks a second, lifetime 5 seconds)

And what caliostro said really.

Gunners and Tanks have already been nerfed, so that leaves us with only 3 possibilities

Except whining about assaults was always there, just sniper was louder.

Also just because people complain doesn't mean there is a balance issue. BUT it also doesn't mean that there ISN'T one.

You can't simply write it off as "game is balanced learn2play" because no game is balanced. The metagame evolves as players find ways to interact with the game that wasn't originally thought of or was thought to be minor issues that turn into major ones as players improve.

Sniper needed a change and further analysis may show that so do assaults and other classes. This doesn't mean that there will be continual nerfs until everyone is nothing, buffs can also be indirect nerfs to other things.

assaults can dispatch a firebase in 3/4 of a clip while juiced...

You do more damage faster with AR than nade launcher.. next time you see one, and can get into ar range, try and LOS it with a corner and AR it down, you'll see what I mean, AR does quite a bit of damage to a firebase, or 2 juiced nades..

but yes putting one in the right spot can reduce the assaults money ball damage, only because hes forced to waist a second or so dispatching it..

To be fair

sniper and assault were both in need of a nerf, sniper got it, I imagine assaults is coming.

there are very few GOOD assaults who won't admit on some level that the class is a bit over powered.

Perfect balance is probably impossible to reach, however there are good ways to tell when a multiplayer game like MNC is getting closer to it:

- No class is dominating
- No class is being dominated
- Each class can kill every other class

So yes, taking these 3 points in consideration, I'd say MNC is doing a good job.