Can we just get this out of the way?

Discussion in 'Planetary Annihilation General Discussion' started by Endurrr, March 1, 2015.

  1. trialq

    trialq Post Master General

    Messages:
    1,295
    Likes Received:
    917
    You're treating every modder as having that attitude. Just as inaccurate as the thing you are complaining about.
  2. cdrkf

    cdrkf Post Master General

    Messages:
    5,721
    Likes Received:
    4,793
    Thinking about it this is an extension of the arguments a few modders had with uber over the balance direction over a year ago... Not the communities finest moment, but also shouldn't be taken as the attitude of all modders.

    Look at the work of people like @cola_colin, @wondible, @killerkiwijuice and so on. they've between them made loads of extensions to the main game, utilities, graphical effects and such. Not to mention some of these mods are prerequisite for tournaments.

    Its not a case of 'modders vs uber' but more a case of helping ourselves (the community as a whole) whilst uber crack on with the core engine stuff that only they can do. Honestly I think it's win win, community gets what it needs, uber can focus on different things, game improves quicker :)
    MrTBSC, nixtempestas and Planktum like this.
  3. Planktum

    Planktum Post Master General

    Messages:
    1,060
    Likes Received:
    510
    I don't hate mods. I've installed a couple of the UI mods myself. I just don't like it when "certain" modders push their server mod as the fix to all our balance problems. I'm glad that Uber are getting some inspiration from the modding community and implementing some of these things into the Vanilla game (i.e. tactical missile anti-orbital) but I'm happy to wait until these things are added to Vanilla. I prefer the Vanilla game (over Mods and PTE) and I don't like it when "certain" modders get upset about this just because I don't want to play their mod.
    dom314 and cdrkf like this.
  4. Planktum

    Planktum Post Master General

    Messages:
    1,060
    Likes Received:
    510
    I have adjusted my subsequent posts to read "certain modders".
    cdrkf likes this.
  5. cdrkf

    cdrkf Post Master General

    Messages:
    5,721
    Likes Received:
    4,793
    Yeah that's a different problem though, I think in that case its the individual you have issue with, and I can quite agree there are some 'forceful' personalities who are quite adamant they are correct about everything.

    I was talking more in general about mods....
    Planktum likes this.
  6. thetrophysystem

    thetrophysystem Post Master General

    Messages:
    7,050
    Likes Received:
    2,874
    Well, honestly I make mods as fun alternative modes that aren't supposed to be vanilla (possibly expansion packs would be nice, tons and tons of very cheap plugins for faction conversions and junk lol)....

    ...As well as to show balance proposals, such as bringing more bottiness infantryness to the bots such as cheap price and speed and amphibious (t1 no naval weapons) and junk, and armory tankyness to the tanks such as adding armor to them and giving them a rapidfire anti-infantry buggy that is weak against being shell'd, and making t2 that is 2.5 t1s strength and really powerful specialized versions such as leveler with tank armor and some really powerful dps and a vanguard with a ton of armor and slow and a bot-ranged rapidfire reasonable-dps cannon and a sheller with a tank's damage and armor but 2.5x the range...

    ...And, I recognize there are many ways to skin a cat and I always supported Uber's way because it makes sense, that is why I was a Vanguard. Well, that isn't why, but really, that should be everyone's attitude anyway.

    Anyway, that leads to another point. Suggesting everything in Vanilla is just as bad as suggesting everything in Mods. You CANNOT have zerg gameplay and slow high health army gameplay. It is impossible to please everyone, if you please the league of legends players you piss off the C&C players. It is very simple to piss everyone off, just try to please everyone. The point is, just because we suggested a mod, and you insist the vanilla game needs it, doesn't mean it is good for the vanilla game. It may ruin many things in the vanilla game, just to cater to some Starcraft player...

    ...As far as that goes, I am pretty sure Uber knows what their demographic is, what percent is classic-supcom and what percent is newbie to the genre and likes faster interesting gameplay. They are honestly in all logic catering at least significantly to the latter, because even though supcom community members backed the idea of this game, the consumer demographic is all of Steam and not just supcom players which sandbag this game anyway and rather stick to their FAF and junk. Really, the casual new entry to the genre buying PA should have a favorable play experience to keep this viable as a franchise, and the supcom players can always come back when supcom ages yet another 6 years, it literally can't last forever is the sad truth. That is my speculation as an outsider to what a business decision in video game design might look like, and it is a sight better than EA does. Look at the cancelled MOBA C&C game, EA blows in design and demographic business calculation...
    cdrkf and MrTBSC like this.
  7. MrTBSC

    MrTBSC Post Master General

    Messages:
    4,857
    Likes Received:
    1,823
    i don't think there is any hate against mods at all
    the point is many people don't like having mods shoved to their face ... and yes there are things people like to see included into vanila that have been mods/in mods before, but without having to use these mods all the time ...

    that however again does not mean that when a suggestion/request is made that people may not like a proof of concept in the form of a mod before said suggestion goes into pte or vanilla ... again look at orbital overhaul f.e. it was a model for some recent ballance changes ...

    typical requests f.e. :
    bubbleshields and experimentals/superunits

    has been agreed to be fairly difficult to balance and therefore not yet in or not going to be in vanilla ...

    the typical answer to that weither you like it or not ... is to mod it ...

    or simply "no"


    what i would people rather ask to do is to stop accusing others to be modhaters ... as that is the most redicoulus thing to call someone and doesn't help the discussion at all ... just flinging mudd at each other does not help the progress of the game ...
    Last edited: March 2, 2015
  8. Endurrr

    Endurrr Active Member

    Messages:
    116
    Likes Received:
    156
    Yes, well, the mod typically has to get very popular before it catches the attention of devs in any videogame.

    If someone's suggestion is met with a no, then by all means they can go to the mods section and request it there. Doesn't matter to me. But if the first post in any suggestion is 'Yeah guess what I bet you didn't know this but this is possible with mods,' Then I have a problem with that.

    Also, thank you for saying something about the modhating accusation problem, I'm glad someone else noticed it. I'm beginning to believe some people are obsessed with forcing PA to go into the modding direction too early.
  9. thetrophysystem

    thetrophysystem Post Master General

    Messages:
    7,050
    Likes Received:
    2,874
    Yeah, and some of those people backed the game with 100 dollars, before the game even had work started on it, with the talk of making modding a main feature in the game as important as the game itself.

    So, if we seem obsessed or if it seems too early, remember, it was that or no game at all. You are welcome.
  10. tatsujb

    tatsujb Post Master General

    Messages:
    12,899
    Likes Received:
    5,385
    guys you don't get it, we never asked for this to turn into a modders VS anti modders thread.

    that isn't the question.

    Mods are beneficial. PERIOD.

    no need to debate that here.

    what we're talking about is suggestions in General being turned down when a mod for it doesn't exist with "mod it".

    that's it.

    that's all we need to "get out of the way". stop being all over each other peace.

    we don't need to create unnecessary hate towards mods, we already have enough, modders, contain yourselves, your not helping your case.
    stuart98 likes this.
  11. thetrophysystem

    thetrophysystem Post Master General

    Messages:
    7,050
    Likes Received:
    2,874
    How am I not helping my case? If you didn't want a moddable game or a game where the devs are still adding things, you would go to the store and pick up the first game that had a little white circle in the corner that says EA on it. They server lock their single players games, just to make sure you can't mod them. Doesn't that sound exciting!

    Mods are your choice as a player, and everyone can request ideas for features or design, but like or hate mods, the vanilla game is a standard basic because it is practical and simple, and mods are interesting because they are various colors that you can try 5 different ones. You simply cannot try 5 different vanillas, and you simply cannot convince the devs to make the game one of those funny colors and leave the others SOL. In that regard, they are doing a good job adding units and new stuff, without catering to the orbital megabot shield subcommander stealth crowd.

    (unless they literally do make a separate vanilla, and added factions or something crazy, and you could choose which vanilla you launch or matchmake with, but that is more an expansion)
  12. Endurrr

    Endurrr Active Member

    Messages:
    116
    Likes Received:
    156
    Can we not turn this into a war guys? Contain yourselves. This isn't a pro-mod anti-mod thread. The thread was made to stop people from dismissing any suggestion with 'mod it'
    stuart98, cdrkf and tatsujb like this.
  13. tatsujb

    tatsujb Post Master General

    Messages:
    12,899
    Likes Received:
    5,385
    Last edited: March 2, 2015
  14. thetrophysystem

    thetrophysystem Post Master General

    Messages:
    7,050
    Likes Received:
    2,874
    Lol quote me saying you are a (inserting break so isn't taken out of context, I'm on to you tatsu) mod hater. I don't think you are a mod hater.

    Read all of my post. The whole thing, especially the end, specifically shows, there is no such thing as a mod hater. If you hate mods, shame on you because your game would not exist or would be dead by now, because any unmoddable even AAA games die in 2 years. If you hate those that hate mods, get your head out of the clouds and learn the actual ******* game your mods are based on.

    I hate everyone equally, don't forget that.
  15. squishypon3

    squishypon3 Post Master General

    Messages:
    7,971
    Likes Received:
    4,356
    I don't think people are looking at this correctly.

    You see people who suggest someone mod it in normally don't really agree with your suggestion, or like it- but don't want to see it in Vanilla.

    I think that's honestly a bit better than just a plain "No" Maybe that's just me?

    Like okay an example... I freaking love the idea of super units, but I'm kind of afraid to see it on the base game as I feel it just doesn't kind of- fit I guess, with vanilla. Yet I was the first to make a super unit mod!

    Also I really don't want shields in vanilla yet I offered to help make a shield mod with Trophy, and I even made a model for a shield projector tower.
  16. nixtempestas

    nixtempestas Post Master General

    Messages:
    1,216
    Likes Received:
    746
    This is what I feel when I give the "make a mod" suggestion.



    I think what some commenters need to do is explain this better, whether it is a "not in vanilla but cool mod" thing, a "might work, make a mod and we can check it out" thing or whatever, people need to explain their reasoning a bit better.

    In general, if your posting in a suggestion thread and your post is < 1 line long, it's probably not worth posting, or needs more explanation before posting. Exceptions of course.
  17. tatsujb

    tatsujb Post Master General

    Messages:
    12,899
    Likes Received:
    5,385
    no because it's a vile misuse of the "mod it" retort as a means to an end.

    it's a disguised no.

    it's a terrible act so don't defend it.

    what we're trying to do here is let people know the reasons behind the act and why it's not so naive as you may think to put an end to this type of treachery.

    it's just the whole "It wasn't in the KS video" and it's older brother "it isn't WYSIWYG" all over again.

    NO and I do say NO one-liner should be an alls-end winner to a debate.

    EVER.
    Last edited: March 2, 2015
  18. tatsujb

    tatsujb Post Master General

    Messages:
    12,899
    Likes Received:
    5,385
    what I'm trying to tell you is that you're missing the point of this thread and thinking it's just the perfect opportunity to bash some mod-haters (not me this time)

    and getting me caught in the crossfire of your gattling gun which is just comical given some backround on me (I mean fudge if mods are a religion then I'm it's freaking inquisition all by myself)


    I'm just trying to tell you to whoaah your horses and maybe save this for another thread where mods are actually under any kind of threat.


    I'm also going to take this opportunity to refresh you with a cool splash of holy water taken from this very thread. only but a single post above yours.
  19. squishypon3

    squishypon3 Post Master General

    Messages:
    7,971
    Likes Received:
    4,356
    How is "No I don't want that in vanilla, but you can mod it if you'd like" ruder than "No I don't want it in vanilla."?
    thetrophysystem likes this.
  20. tatsujb

    tatsujb Post Master General

    Messages:
    12,899
    Likes Received:
    5,385
    It's subtle politics, squishy.

    I'm sorry to have to reveal the sad ways of the world to such a young soul as you but I'd rather you be aware and alert and then unsuspecting :

    it's a stronger no.

    it's a no with a reason why you should shut up and never fight back.

    it's especially twisted given most people don't see through it.

    Hence an entire thread to explain it all.

    it's definitely worse and the person would be much better off saying "No I don't want it in vanilla."

    it's not like the OP didn't already fuxing know about mods.

Share This Page