Can new units balance dox?

I was watching ZaphodX's stream and I thought of units that could counter ants (bolos) and dox.

The current balance problem with vehicles and dox is mostly from the high rate of fire of dox (and speed too) that can tear through tanks, which makes small groups effectively useless. So, I think a possible fix could be a high rate of fire T1 vehicle that deals low damage but very quickly, like dox. But wait... the dox are still faster amirite? Yes, but you can send vehicles to the location before the enemy gets there, which is a pre-made strategical move.

Then, as a counter to this, there could be a high damage bot like the Gil-E (except not as OP and T1) which deals high damage to combat against bolos but get destroyed by dox, and my new proposed vehicle.

To be honest i'm kinda running out of ideas since we've heard nothing about how balance can be fixed. It's obviously a problem for 1v1, and this solution seems like it would not affect other game types. I would like to see what the community thinks of this.

PS. The wonderful threads about economy/balance made by @cola_colin and @Quitch should be thoroughly experimented and tested by Uber.

The lack of rapidfire units does leave dox unbridled. You could buff dox slightly if you have a vehicle counterpart that does less damage and more rate of fire. Or low damage and rate but mild AOE.

Heck, giving some AOE to tanks to half-kill dox around the direct hit dox, would actually balance dox against vehicles no-other changes made.

As far as adding units? If the land scout fired a weapon twice as fast as the ant with dox damage, that would be alright. If the vanguard had a 80 range weapon that fired dox damage at twice the rate of fire, that would make it a dox counter as well as a part of regular armies instead of a head-on snipe unit (since it could contribute to vehicle armies if it had a weapon that can contribute)

Uber entertainment did promise a 100 unit roster so its certainly possible will see more units down the line
It would also give us a little bit of excitement if they would add 1, they havent added a new unit since the boom-bot (i think) like a year ago

It might help to a point but

TA tried to balance everything by adding new units. That didn't work out so well.

this. While I do think PA could use a few more units here and there, I don't think it is a good idea to go and try to balance existing "imba" units by adding more units.

That's like trying to solve a complex problem by increasing the complexity.

While it has the potential to complicate things, it also has the immediate benefit of increasing unit diversity.

It should at least be considered as an option tbh. I'm looking forward to some statements on balance from Uber anyway.

Btw, just because a problem becomes more complex doesn't mean it becomes impossible

As I said it was good to a point but true balance cannot be achieved without balancing units by stats.

Idk, in this case I think the unit is simply lacking any decent counter units.

Think about it, what if the nuke had no antinuke at all? Any juicy target would be open game.

The dox is literally the only 1 hit health unit in the game and costs 1/3 a tank. Well, tanks take 2-3 shots to kill, so tanks take a lot longer to kill dox being so many more individual units to shoot.

I am not even saying add a unit to the dox. I am saying add a game mechanic, where you can choose to have less effective damage but more rate of fire to kill numerous-units. This doesn't add units, it balances units within a new mechanic. You could balance existing units within this without adding any more.

All good points! Main problem with Dox I can see is the AA. If removed and put onto another unit eg Combat Fabber and reduce it cost by half! would make an exceptional support unit! imho.

The issue with the dox is not that it is *better than* tanks, or that they can be spammed out the wazoo at the beginning of the match and for a long time afterward. The problem is tht the Dox is the answer to too many problems in a game.

Counter tanks? Use dox and go around
Counter Dox? Use Dox.
Counter Turtle Eco? Rush dox.
Counter air? Hummingbirds, then massive dox swarms.

By taking away ONE of those answers, the problem is solved. I went the air route (no AA), which may raise questions about the Stinger down the line (but probably shouldn't - after all, no strategy should consist of JUST bot factories or JUST air factories).

I put this to the test with my balance mod, and it works quite well. The results of diverse and varied gameplay are staggering.

This thread seems to be asking if we could take away the Counter Tanks problem. Imho, it's quite possible, but it's probably a hell of a lot simpler than you think

An early, weak medium range AOE unit would solve the Dox problem pretty easily. I usually counter dox with bombers and it tends to work pretty well despite the bombers' low rate of fire.

Make it something like a shrapnel tank. Shoots quick shotgun-like barrages that spread out over a small area and explode in clusters.

If dox had no AA bombers would shred them super crazy effectivly as well.

There should be an anti-dox thing called Xod. That or "Dox-B-Gon".

The End of the Era of the Dox Terror

5 eva?

5eva.

Or if their AA was just worse, like in the mod I made.

i rather have propper balanced unitroles than more units to ballance the existing units ... seriously just having a high number of units will lead to a confusing and chaotic unitrooster ...
we don´t want players to have hours spent to understand the rooster and all its tiny details ...
we want them have hours spend to enjoy the game ..

Anti-bot would be a pretty obvious and easy concept. "gunlike" weapons and units with gun-like weapons do well against bots and poorly against vehicles and poorly against structures. Shell-like wepaons and units with them, do well against armor units, kill bots more slowly, and do well against structures as well. Bots are fast to produce in bulk and fast to deploy but don't survive a single shot. Tanks produce in slower numbers and are slower to travel, but can survive much punishment and be repaired as well.