BlueHawk > Sniper (Ridiculously) - Buff T2 Bots

Discussion in 'Balance Discussions' started by graushwein, February 11, 2016.

?

Does Gil-E need to be Buffed? (Can select multiple)

  1. Not needed

    4.5%
  2. Speed

    22.7%
  3. Damage

    45.5%
  4. Range

    50.0%
  5. Fire rate

    45.5%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. graushwein

    graushwein Member

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    BlueHawk > Sniper

    BlueHawks are just way better for the same cost.
    • Shoot over terrain, always hit.
    • Same range, speed
    • Better DPS (71% more)
    • More HP (33% more)
    • No turret rotation (aim) time
    • Only takes 8 missiles to defeat the missile defense of 24 sniper bots...
    Slammer is faster, cheaper, has way more HP...

    Vs Leveler and Sheller
    Something like this would bring them into line and make T2 bots useful mid to late game:
    • Gil-E:
      • Speed 17
      • Increase Range to 220
      • Double weapon damage (keeping fire rate of 0.25/second)
    • BlueHawk
      • Add splash damage
    Last edited: February 11, 2016
  2. Alpha2546

    Alpha2546 Post Master General

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    This is what you want basically.

    https://forums.uberent.com/threads/angry-robots.71297/

    Enjoy
  3. graushwein

    graushwein Member

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    Basically yes, but useful in ranked games, not just mods.
  4. stylisticsagittarius

    stylisticsagittarius Active Member

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    I think you have to be carefull here since there was a long time the sniper bot was the absolute uber unit...
    There are 2 options you can use.

    -you make it a decent slow firing anti air unit (better than it is now) so it can be used to counter heavy air like the zeus but is relativly weak vs other packed air units.

    OR and make it very clear this is an OR

    -make it cheaper like the same as t2 assault bot making the choice more of what unit you want to play with as sniper units are quite weak and doesn't deal alot of damage in a little time whilst the slammer does the opposite.

    ps if u want a vote you should give people an option for other...
  5. graushwein

    graushwein Member

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    Or perhaps make them like the Grenadier and not able to shoot while running away. Or can only shoot while standing still. But they certainly need some love.
  6. huangth

    huangth Active Member

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    If you just look at the information of the units, you know the bluehawk has the same range as the sniper.
    And the DPS of bluehawk is much higher.
    But in reality, snipers perform better than bluehawk.

    First, sniper can shoot down the missile.
    Thus, GIL-E can simply neutralizes and suppresses bluehawk.

    Second, the missile of bluehawk takes time to fly to its target.
    The missile is too slow, and it often just hits a dead wreckage.
    Unless bluehawk is shoot a target with high HP, such as buildings,
    the effective DPS of bluehawk is quite low due to the overkill, especially when dealing with small units.

    In my opinion, T2 bots are useful support units to help the T2 tanks.
    Slammer can help leveler to clear small units such as dox and boom bot.
    Sniper can save T2 tanks from enemy catapult by neutralizing the missiles.
    Bluehawk can take down the anchors when they pass them.

    I don't want T2 bots can suppress the T2 tank, bots are already faster than tanks.
    If the T2 bots can hold the T2 tanks well, the T2 tanks will become completely useless.
    So we better keep them all useful but different.
    T2 tanks: main force for pushing
    T2 bots: support units
    Last edited: February 18, 2016
    Heizmeister likes this.
  7. graushwein

    graushwein Member

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    It really depends on the circumstances on whether they outperform snipers. Snipers can't shoot over obstacles. Yes I know it is a trade-off.

    I've tried using them against various things and never found them worthwhile. Most of the time they can't shoot their full range when there are no obstacles and if they are running away from T2 tanks only the first row of snipers can be out of range of the Levelers and still shooting at them. But they can only run away so far until they have to stop. I've never found a good use for them, compared to vehicles. They do not seem to have a place or something that they counter.

    When do you mix in or use snipers and find it more helpful than using a vehicle?
    Other than shooting down missiles, what is their role?
  8. huangth

    huangth Active Member

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    I remember that the snipers can shoot though the obstacles, such as hill, mountain, or valley.
    Their shoots can penetrate the terrain.

    But I don't use sniper to counter the levelers, snipers requires a lot of micro control which is impractical for me.
    T2 tanks have much more HP and better DPS.
    And sheller can counter the sniper bot and bluehawk due to longer range and area of effect.
    Don't try to use T2 bots against T2 tanks, this is not their designed purpose.
    T1 dox and boom bot can counter the T2 vehicles even better than T2 bots
    since the T2 vehicles have quite low rate of fire which is not good to deal with the boom bot.

    Back to your question.
    The main reason for me to buy the sniper is just to counter the enemy missile weapons, especially for catapult.
    However, there may be some cases I would try to build the sniper for seige.
    When my opponent mass products the T1 bots rather than T1 tanks,
    obtaining T2 bot factory for slammer is better than getting T2 tank factory for leveler or vanguard.
    Slammer also gives you the speed which is faster than tanks, thus you can react the enemy bots more quickly.
    In this situation, sniper bots can be used as seige units to take out the enemy laser turrets.
  9. graushwein

    graushwein Member

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    I tried two maps, and they don't seem to shoot through manually placed terrain, definitely not walls either so taking out laser turrets is not a great example. They do shoot through flat ground, but that is it. They weakly counter missile weapons, but after that there is no role for them in combat where they have a defined role. Like you said, they are just impractical. That is my point.
    huangth likes this.
  10. huangth

    huangth Active Member

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    I remember the sniper can penetrate the ground since original PA, it may be modified.
    So it can still penetrate the high ground or trench on the metal planet?
  11. dom314

    dom314 Post Master General

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    This is no longer true for PA classic Titans. They are actual fast moving projectiles now.
    Last edited: February 20, 2016
    huangth and graushwein like this.
  12. frostsatir

    frostsatir Active Member

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    Snipers needs only in range buff (land and anti-air) i think. I tryed use them as anti-missile defence,but as you know snipers always try move behind army(automatically).So if you have big army they just not attack missiles cuz they are too far from "first line of attack".Same if you using Atlas, cuz this stupid Titan always trying to move ahead of the army.
    Snipers can work against Zeus, but 140 anti-air range its not "save" distance.I prefer 200 range for anti-land and anti-air weapon with current damage. That would be balanced.

    Btw. Sniper shots should be "invisible".
  13. huangth

    huangth Active Member

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    It is ok for me to increase the weapon range of sniper.
    But I still think the shots should have a visible effect for player to know.
  14. graushwein

    graushwein Member

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    Also, I just noticed that the sniper has the minimum bot speed of 12, no other bots have less. The Slammer has speed 14, while Dox have 18. Slammers are the fastest non-Locust T2 bot. To me this seems wrong. T1 Bots are supposed to be about mobility/speed, but T2 bots seem to drop this focus?
  15. oksidi

    oksidi New Member

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    Well I could bet that you would be mostly using T2 bots with your tanks so does the speed decrease matter? Also I would be more afraid of 10 slammers closing in on my base than 100 dox ;).
    Only two of the T1 bots (dox and boom) are truly about speed. The grenadier and the spark are slightly faster than the ant but speed isn't their main "advantage", same with T2 bots. While yes the T2 bots suck in quite a few situations but you can create or find situations where they are useful (except Gil-E?:rolleyes:).
    So in short T2 bots fill in the support role in your armies.
  16. graushwein

    graushwein Member

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    There's a flaw in your logic. A more mobile force can project influence over a larger area and can defend/attack in more locations than a slower one. You don't put your dox in a tank column often because they are usually worth more when used to harass unfortified areas. They can also be used to draw off enemy forces (bait) and take minimal losses.
  17. oksidi

    oksidi New Member

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    Well true i would prefer 18 speed slammers but we can't get all we want :(. So instead of relying on the units super fast speed you rely on intel, scouting and clever unit movement based on those two to achieve your goals. Of course you could try teleporters ;). And because of the reasons you listed speed is an extremely powerful stat so you have to trade it for firepower and health to keep it fair for the tanks. Obviously the slammer and the locust are your t2 raiding units with different ways to achieve that.
  18. graushwein

    graushwein Member

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    Since I never said Slammers should be faster, I guess I'll take that comment as a joking exaggeration or dramatic flare and move on.

    Slammers are amphibious tanks (with lower HP) and Locusts are persistent Booms. Neither are raiding units, unless you count Booms as filling the raiding role, but I think they're more like sappers/demolitions instead.

    Vehicles have high HP and DPS per metal spent, which is equally powerful due to the snowball effect. This is obvious because the overwhelming majority of T2 factories built are vehicles.

    I'm proposing a role for the snipers that does not belong to another T2 ground unit. They could eat easily be countered with dox, booms, bombers, and artillery.
  19. oksidi

    oksidi New Member

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    Well I think that I kinda lost where this was going whoops :). But anyway I agree that the sniper bot requires it's own role but the problem is what that role would be. Since currently it is a "long range, accurate and high damage" single target removal but other units do it's job better :mad:. For example bluehawk is better at killing single targets and sheller is just superior in army vs army due to the AoE and range. Currently you would only build it if you had no better options in T2 bots (so never) and imo it only serves as a bad missile and air defence at the moment and it will likely stay this way considering the current situation :(.
  20. graushwein

    graushwein Member

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    Sadface indeed.

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