Reposted in my own thread for the sake. Here are my thoughts. Feel free to discuss. Note: Nerfs are italicized/blue for ease of reading Assault The Assault would need to be better at fighting pros, but should have less ability to block passage/kill bots and turrets. This would soldify the Assault's role, but make it difficult for him to clear a lane without the aid of others/using ejectors wisely.The assault shouldn't be capable of running lanes so well while having such a good standing against Pros as well. -Reduce rate of fire on grenade launcher -Change LVL 3 charge grapple animation to faster "bot grapple" animation -Increase charge skill regeneration time -Increase Bomb skill generation time -Increase maximum amount of time Jetpack can suspend Assault in air -Increase accuracy during Jetpack usage Assassin The assassin needs to gain some benefit from her shuriken launcher outside of minor turret chipping. At the same time, her ability to eliminate her weaknesses needs to require more skill or more effort. Grapple needs to be amplified to accomodate laggier matches. Assassin needs to be more suited to taking care of turrets and bots, and less worry regarding fighting other Pros. Avoidance should be improved, while making it more difficult to have a successful Pro v pro fight outcome. -Allow Assassin to recloak during grapple animations -Reduce overall damage to Moneyball -Reduce overall damage to Shaveice -Increase Shuriken damage to bots -Reduce angle at which grapple qualifies as a "behind grapple" -Increase overall speed -Increase grapple range with sword -Increase frame advantage after front grapple -Change shuriken launcher reticle to better represent targeting -Change speed endorsement to only affect non-Dash speed -Increase speed endorsement bonus to regular movement speed -Reduced juice gain Support Support needs to have more tools available more often, but to a lesser potency. Require that the Support possess slightly more skill when using HH gun and airstrikes instead of success being over-simplified, but amplify maximum potential to balance. The Support needs more complete map viability, instead of being forced to hug his turrets to retain value. -Increase Firebase armor -increase Support jump height -Decrease firebase rate of fire -Decrease amount of red meter required for LVL 3 Airstrike -Decrease Airstrike splash damage -Make HH gun firing scope a frontal cone shape -Have the closest portion of the cone do more than the furthest range -Closest heals faster than HH gun used to be able -HH gun can affect multiple targets - Accuracy endorsement increases range instead of tightening spread -Increase enemy turret hack speed -Enemy turret hack is temporary, time-dependent on turret level Gunner Increase Gunner's ability to maintain lanes, but retain his weakness to Snipers. Decrease effectiveness against turrets. Decrease benefit from deploy/passive, while helping mobility and basic ability to promote investment in red/blue skills. *-LVL2 Passive Mortar rounds split right from beginning. (This would deal more damage to bots, but force a Gunner to get closer to a turret for maximum damage each shot) -Increase Minigun clip size -LVL3 Passive does not provide double rounds, merely increases rate of fire -LVL3 Deploy no longer provides head shield -Increase LVL3 Deploy armor increase *-LVL2 Deploy reduces time to deploy/un-deploy instead of adding critical shot Tank Increase defensive ability, while adjusting offensive properties.The tank takes shots, survives, and keeps on trucking. His abilities need to emphasize that. -Death Blossom is susceptible to grapples -Charge is susceptible to grapples -Product grenades do not block sight of your health bar, or any other obscured elements of your HUD -LVL3 Passive adds a head shield -Head shield works while mobile/deployed -Head shield works better while deployed (Undeployed headshots take 75% health, Deployed=50%) -Death Blossom incapable after Jet gun clip below 50% -Decreased Jet Gun Clip size *-Maximum Death blossom damage remains same Sniper The Sniper currently doesn't benefit too much from his SMG, and needs a reason to use it. The Sniper rifle's juice garnering ability needs to be dealt with, while still retaining its value as a heavy-hitting weapon. Seeing as how every other device in the game causes self-damage, I fail to see why traps are exempt. -Damage dealt from explosive rounds juice contribution reduced -Being within range of ice traps upon triggering will catch/slow Sniper as well -Increased SMG clip size -Increased SMG accuracy -Increased Sniper rifle clip size -Decreased sniper rifle rate of fire -Ice traps are destructible -Flak duration increased -Flak damage increased inherently -Flak radius decreased
I'll bite this time since I passed in that other topic. Assault: Grenade launcher RoF? Maybe a 10-15% decrease would be fine, but anything less and I'm not sure; it just sounds bad to me. I'm fine with the lengthy animation for Charge 3 personally, I think it's a fair trade off since it's almost a given that you're going to be able to ring out anyone you don't kill with it. The increased cooldown on the bomb and charge I dislike though since those are pretty important to the Assault in Blitz, on top of a grenade launcher RoF nerf it'd leave him pretty impotent for Blitz. Assassin: Adding a nerfed version of the recloaking during grapples sounds cheap to me. I agree with reducing moneyball and shaveice damage wholeheartedly. Increase shuriken damage to bots? I'm not sure. It just sounds bad to me, not sure why. Care to explain the context of reducing that angles dealie? I'm uncertain what you mean specifically. Increasing base speed I'm not a fan of since it'd make the sprint skill less useful. Grapple range is fine in my book as is. Same case for the aftermath of a grapple; if you don't kill your target with it you should be prepared to die for it. Shuriken launcher's reticule is as deceptive as all hell...Reduced juice gain would be good, too easy to juice :| Support: IMO the firebase is fine as it is. Increased jump height sounds fine. Decreased airstrike splash damage sounds fine; why should you get the same effect on the edge of the explosion as the center? The HHG reticule seems fine to me, unless you mean something else. I'm against the idea of altering the HHG rates of anything and ealing multiple targets at once, it takes away the prioritization. Accuracy endorsement affecting the boomstick in such a way that increase range sounds reasonable to me, however I don't believe it should have any effect on the HHG and even a gold endorsement shouldn't make the boomstick a viable mid-range weapon IMO. Hacking enemy turrents absolutely should go faster and absolutely should be temporary, indeed. Gunner: Most of the proposed changes I'm against. I'm not a fan of the complete lack of skill it takes to be an effective Gunner, but IMO these proposed changes just about make him a slower Assault with fewer options to play with. I'm not a fan of the idea, I think Gunners should still be a force to be reckoned with to some extent. Removing the head shield I am in favor of though, Snipers should pretty much always have the advantage when there's a long and unobstructed line of sight. Tank: Death blossom being susceptible to grapples sounds all right to me, but there should probably be some needlessly-complex mechanic that determines how much ammo he has when it's interrupted by a grapple IMO. He's supposed to be the strongest pro at point-blank, so making him completely impotent by allowing someone to just instantly shut down one of his best close range offensive/defensive tools seems a bit broken to me. Charge being susceptible to grapples doesn't make any sense. The charge should only be counterable by killing him or with another charge. Same applies to the Assault's charge IMO. Totally agree with the Billy Mays bomb not obscuring HUD elements: that's always seemed stupid to me. Head shield I disagree with being in place at all. Death blossom being disabled at low amounts of ammo sounds bad to me, it suffers from massive damage reduction according to how much ammo you've already burned through as it is. I disagree with the jet gun clip size being reduced as well. The jet gun has a fairly short range where it can deal damage at all, cutting into the clip size would cripple the Tank IMO. Sniper: First two nerfs sound perfectly reasonable. I believe though that the Sniper's weapons are fine as-is. Increasing the SMG's usefulness would make him too powerful in close quarters where he should definitely be weak. The rifle clip size is just fine as is IMO, if you need more than that consider a reload or clip size endorsement :roll: Decreased rate of fire? I'll say pass. Destructible ice traps sounds fine. I think flak grenades are fine as is.
the assault grenade launcher is only powerful when backed by a RoF endorsement, so it should be fine as is. as for the rest, tl:dr
My responses are blue. Multiquoting messes me up too often. Well, thank you for responding, and glad to hear you didn't think every idea was terrible.
Find me an Assault without Gold/Silver ROF, and I'll find you a retarded Assault. For the jobs that it fills, yes, I do feel it's too powerful.
The tank already can be grappled out of both his charge and his death blossom (which completely wastes the ammo of the jet gun clip without dealing any damage). Grapple countering charge has been labeled as a lag issue, but it really sucks that you blow your cooldown only to be grappled (which FREEZES cooldown/skill recovery time). Head shield on the tank would be waaaayyyyy too op. He already is the only pro in the game that can survive headshots without an overshield while undeployed. (silver armor + passive 3). I do wish deploy would not be drained while you were ice trapped though. The jet gun clip might be a bit high at the moment, but death blossom is pretty much perfect after their first change to it. I would not touch it.
Re Re Assault: I know I speak for a very, very tiny number of people(me myself and I) but in my opinion the Assault's charge is fine as it is. I like the the fact that it is so powerful(indeed 100% fatal with ring outs) and that the enemy can't do anything after they're hit by it, but it also leaves you vulnerable during the two second or so animation. I just love it. Getting ring out kills with it is incredibly epic and worth every bit of risk in my book Less risk would make it a little bit less rewarding for me personally. An increase in cooldown time may actually be due, but I just dislike the idea because I love the charge so much even when I'm not using it offensively Re Re Assassin: Try cloaking to get crits with your shuriken launcher. It's handy because it makes the entire clip nothing but crits if you fire them all at once. That's strong enough, IMO. I understand what you mean about the grapple angle now, but I'm at a loss to comment on it. I feel I lack enough experience as an Assassin to comment on it fairly. Re Re Support: I dislike the idea of reworking the HHG so extensively. I prefer it how it is since it adds that interesting element of where a Support can keep a stronger class alive all the while dancing around them as a live target; the "jumping around like a retarded nancy" you speak of is a really fun thing to do as it creates some very intense situations. The proposed change would also be more heavy on the engine and eat up more resources than the current one since it'd be larger and require a more complex combination of effects to give the visual effect proposed. So I'm against the gameplay and visual concepts of it rather firmly. Re Re Gunner: I must've had my head elsewhere when I read over the Gunner proposed changes, because it seems completely different now. Well, honestly I believe the Gunner is fine as it is except I'd probably alter mortar damage and remove the head shield if I had my way. The mortar should either be more effective against pros but less against bots and turrents, or be worthless to kill pros and have it's other damage the same as present. I dislike the idea of mortars splitting any differently than they currently do as well, I believe that's just fine as is. Re Re Tank: Unnecessary, but I have to second Hudson's statement that the Tank should not have the head shield. Re Re Sniper: The SMG is slightly less powerful than the Assault's rifle, but not by too much. What makes it weaker is the lower rate of fire and clip size. I think if the SMG is altered in any way it should be nerfed modestly, but that's just me. Flak is all right with me because it kinda centralizes the user's focus. If they're proficient, they're either going to be expecting someone to just take another path or wait and go where the lfak was placed. In that case the user has a great headshot opportunity and it gives their enemies more options for mindgames. I believe the cooldown is fine as it is too, the rare time I touch Sniper I'm wondering why the hell it hasn't recharged yet with my skill endorsement so I guess that makes it fair :lol: Certainly. I enjoy good hypothetical discussions about games for some reason, it seems to be the main reason I post at this forum at all :lol: I agree wholeheartedly, but from a balance standpoint it makes perfect sense. Deploying does basically give you free, if temporary, upgrades. It's just logic says "ice shouldn't make it harder for me to stand perfectly still and be a good target after it thaws"
