Backers Versus Public Forum - Leave the hate, embrace love!

Discussion in 'Backers Lounge (Read-only)' started by bbf, January 11, 2013.

  1. bbf

    bbf New Member

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    There has been some discussion about this in other topics, but I believe this issue should have it's own topic so that the original ones stay on topic.

    So I feel that there are members in here that wish to stay away from the public forum, while some believe that this would just fragment the community.

    Harsh, but funny. I for one just think that this backer forum *might* have less trolls then the backer forum. At least they will be trolls that paid to troll us.

    And snownebula does have a point. If the idea of the kickstarter was to make a game based on the feedback of the backers, this is the place to have discussions about game related ideas that should go into the game, especially during development.

    We will be the ones playing the beta... some the alpha (count me in). So we'll be the ones that are able to give feedback based on experience. And not just some, "I think it would be better doing the opposite!", without even having played.

    One might argue that further down the road the game will be sold for everyone, and the other forum has exactly those people. But a game is about a vision... and I believe that PA will be the vision of Uber + Backers. Of course we shouldn't just ignore everything said there just out of spite.

    So instead of fragmenting the backer forum itself, we could instead try another approach. I believe that we could just take the GOOD ideas from the public forum, and copy them here for discussion between the backers. It'll be inevitable to have parallel threads about the same topic. Truth be told, if you are hanging out on the public forum, you'll see duplicate threads about the same topic over there.

    Those that couldn't care less about the public forum, just ignore it, and enjoy your warm and fuzzy backer forum. And those that like and have time to follow the public forum as well, just do it! All of the backers will be benefited by having some good ideas from the public forum, as long as they are doable by the devs, and are not just a random brain fart.

    I hope we can all just help each other to make the BEST RTS game ever.

    Well, these are just my 2cents.
  2. BulletMagnet

    BulletMagnet Post Master General

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    Re: Backers Versus Public Forum - Leave the hate, embrace lo

    I just saw the thread where that quote came from. Blech!

    I don't particularly care who makes the suggestion, or how much money they've pledged, or how good at FA/TA/Starcraft they are. You can be the Pope and still make a bad suggestion.

    Personally, I want to see good suggestions and ideas. Ones that have been thought-out, and are aware of what they're there for, what they're not, and what problems they create.

    Anyone can create those ideas. The thickness of your wallet does not determine the quality of your ideas.



    Enough of that for now. I haven't really seen anything community-posted in here that actually belonged in here. Most of the questions and suggestions have been posed and answered in the public forum. The ones that do belong here are; custom commanders, and what content will we see here.

    As neutrino said;

    It's an experiment.
  3. sylvesterink

    sylvesterink Active Member

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    Re: Backers Versus Public Forum - Leave the hate, embrace lo

    I'm not a fan of this elitist attitude where just because you paid, your ideas are better or more important than those who did not. Anyone can have a good idea, and if it's a suggestion that improves the game, or perhaps a criticism of a suggestion that would be detrimental to the game, it doesn't matter who expresses it.

    And since up until this point the devs have been looking at suggestions from the public forum, it's unlikely they'll stop and read only the backer forum. Either way, the voice of someone who didn't back PA would end up being heard, and if they make a good point, then it's a voice that should be heard.

    And in fact, when ideas are being thrown around, it's always good to have a third party provide their insight, as they can provide a different viewpoint that may help improve the game.

    For example many of us have played FA, and know how upgrading a commander might go, but if some random Dota 2 player wandered to the boards by accident (on the way to trolling the SMNC boards, perhaps), and offered a suggestion for how to streamline commander upgrades in a way that would be much more efficient, should that person's opinion be thrown out because they aren't a backer?

    Or suppose a fantastic suggestion is made in a forum thread, say something along the lines of implementing a build-area command like in Zero-K. (Which has already been done, but this is hypothetical.) Perhaps some random Starcraft 2 player browses through and realizes this suggestion is something they always wanted in Starcraft. Now you suddenly have an interested fan that can help spread the word. A fan that might not be as interested had the thread been for backers' eyes only.

    Sure there are some things that are better off discussing in private, such as exclusive content released for backers only, or issues that are realized when playing the alpha. Those I have no problem with keeping to the backer forum. But otherwise, I firmly believe that as much discussion about the game should take place in the open, for the sake of good ideas, and for the sake of spreading the word.
  4. garatgh

    garatgh Active Member

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    Re: Backers Versus Public Forum - Leave the hate, embrace lo

    Didnt they mention that the public forum was supposed to be the backers forum in the begining? They just made it public instead becuse it felt right.

    This forum (Backers lounge) is basicly something just trown togheter to give us the "exclusive forum" promised.

    I get the "backers opinions should be more important" since... well... we payed for the game. It feels obvious to me that our opinion should be, at least slightly, more important.

    But at the same time, as said earlier in this thread, a good idea is a good idea even if its from a nonbacker and being a backer dosent guarantee a good idea or being right.
    Last edited: January 12, 2013
  5. madcook

    madcook New Member

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    Re: Backers Versus Public Forum - Leave the hate, embrace lo

    Also, by definition, a forum is a forum. It is a place to exchange ideas. The backer's forum does not have to be for only specific ideas. Unless Uber say differently, things may be discussed here that are also discussed in the main forum, and vice versa.

    Some people (ie me!) have mainly lurked in the main forums, merely digesting people's views. However, now we have a backer's forum, I will be more likely to post and reply, as I now feel "more-involved".

    I don't feel it is constructive to criticise anything posted here as "belonging in the main forum" or "it's been done-to-death" (without even a helpful link to such items). Uber are more than capable of reading both, and/or stipulating how they wish us to use the forums.

    We all (hopefully...) just want a superb game to keep us amused for years to come, so if you are fed up by the fact that you're reading something previously discussed, rather than wasting even more of your time, just slide on by to another topic.

    Sorry if I've offended anyone. That's not my intention. I just want to see more information about the game. If I have offended someone, you can wait until the game is released, then wipe the floor with me in-game. I won't care, so long as I can have my fun whilst being stomped on.

    Roll on July (or whenever. At LEAST we're in the right year now!)
  6. ekulio

    ekulio Member

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    Re: Backers Versus Public Forum - Leave the hate, embrace lo

    This.

    There are probably lots of people who are excited for this game and have good ideas but want to make sure it turns out well before paying for it. I have no problem with that.
    If someone has no intention of buying, I don't see why they would bother to give an opinion.
  7. garatgh

    garatgh Active Member

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    Re: Backers Versus Public Forum - Leave the hate, embrace lo

    Are you new to the internet? (Semi-joke).
  8. LordQ

    LordQ Active Member

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    Re: Backers Versus Public Forum - Leave the hate, embrace lo

    Arguably, you could say that the slight elevation that backers receive by backing is almost equalled by the fact that Uber will want to take some ideas from non backers to increase the likelihood of their pre ordering or buying.
  9. nightnord

    nightnord New Member

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    Re: Backers Versus Public Forum - Leave the hate, embrace lo

    *scratches the head
    Okay, if you say so...

    49K people and no trolls? Really? Not going to happen.

    Actually, separated forum (as free discussion platform) for Beta/Alpha testers make sense (as they should discuss issues from gameplay), but separated forum (as free discussion platform) for exclusive concepts doesn't. I really think Uber should lock down this forum, so only Uber may create new threads - everyone are free to comment on topic given, but not create new topics.
  10. knickles

    knickles Well-Known Member

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    Re: Backers Versus Public Forum - Leave the hate, embrace lo

    44,000 people backed this project. If you honestly believe that the forum community is more than a minority of those backers and, more specifically, represents the entire backer opinion / has more valid opinions than non-backers, then you're stupid.

    This sub forum does not exist to segregate opinions. This forum exists to release "special" content as a reward and to provide a place for people to safely discuss said content. If Uber were to lock this forum or use a different method of providing the content, then it'd be much more likely to leak because people enjoy discussion.

    I guess you didn't comprehend the humour.
  11. nightnord

    nightnord New Member

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    Re: Backers Versus Public Forum - Leave the hate, embrace lo

    Discussing content could be done within thread with content.

    Every joke has a part of joke.
  12. knickles

    knickles Well-Known Member

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    Re: Backers Versus Public Forum - Leave the hate, embrace lo

    That whole quote wasn't 100% directed at you. People just need to realize this forum is probably less about getting "special" opinions and more about providing a reward.

    Locking the ability to create new topics would be a good idea

    ummm... k
  13. garatgh

    garatgh Active Member

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    Re: Backers Versus Public Forum - Leave the hate, embrace lo

    Considering how they say it "a place for backers to hang out, duscuss, etc" and then "it will ALSO be where we can, on occasion, talk about things that we want to limit".

    The meaning should be (unless i'm way worse at english than i thought) that this forum is meant for normal game discussions between backers only and then ALSO discuss the bonus stuff, so saying that the forum is only for discussion of the exlusive stuff is wrong (unless im mistaken).
  14. dmii

    dmii Member

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    Re: Backers Versus Public Forum - Leave the hate, embrace lo

    As I see it, since we provided the money there is some kind of responsibility from the devs, to tell us what they do with it. (Note: This is how I would feel towards the backers of my KS project if I had one. There is afaik no such thing required by KS, they only have to provide the rewards.)

    So as neutrino said, he isn't 100% comfortable with putting some of the stuff out into the public, which makes backers-only the logical thing to do. We trust them with our money, they trust us with more information, since we should be more familiar with the project, when compared to a non-backer.
    We followed the project for a longer time and should have looked at it more careful than others, since we actually spent money on it.

    We aren't more qualified in terms of making contributions, but we should be more qualified at handling information. By which I mean not misunderstanding it and refraining from jumping to conclusions.

    If people want to be elitist, they can do so here, but if you want to discuss a suggestion, excluding the thoughts of other people in general is a bad thing.
  15. knickles

    knickles Well-Known Member

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    Re: Backers Versus Public Forum - Leave the hate, embrace lo

    And nowhere did it say "we'll be looking here to get a true sense of what our backers want" (or something along those lines). Sure, you're more than welcome to discuss things here, especially if you're the type of person who gets a hard on for "special clubs", because this is the reward they promised. "The only real rule is that we do ask you to not share dev posts from this forum elsewhere." should say it all, really.
  16. garatgh

    garatgh Active Member

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    Re: Backers Versus Public Forum - Leave the hate, embrace lo


    No need to become offensive (if your wonder i took the "getting a hard on for special clubs" part as being offensive).

    Taking the conversation down to basics:

    You said something wrong (that this forum is only for the exclusive content). I corrected you.

    Thats it.

    You dont need to have "a hard on for special clubs" just becuse you wish to discuss the game with people that have invested in it instead of people that havent invested in it (well some of them have by preorders, but not all).
  17. AraxisHT

    AraxisHT Active Member

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    Re: Backers Versus Public Forum - Leave the hate, embrace lo

    Backers paid for early. That's it. Early info, early access.

    Backers did NOT pay for better. Backers are not better than other members. Backers should not be treated as if they are better than others. Backers should not act as if they are better than others.

    Anyone who thinks it's a good idea to treat non-backers as second class citizens clearly have never heard of "Chowder."
  18. garatgh

    garatgh Active Member

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    Re: Backers Versus Public Forum - Leave the hate, embrace lo

    First of: Backers didnt pay for early access (that was just a bonus for backing), backers paid for the game being made, without the backers PA wouldent see the day of light.

    If Uber decided to value backer input more (but i realy doubt they will) the none-backers has nothing to complain about.

    And if they valued backers opinions more (again they havent said that they do and i doubt they would value backers opinions more) it would certainly not be becuse they are "better" then none backers were did you get that idea?

    And "second class citizens"? This isent a city! We arent citizens of PA. Its a game in development, saying that someone would be a second class citizen becuse they werent allowed to be as involved in a games development is just ridicules.
  19. stevedaman1228

    stevedaman1228 Member

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    Re: Backers Versus Public Forum - Leave the hate, embrace lo

    I like the idea of an exclusive backers lounge, if you support something and those you supported want to thank you by making an area to give you exclusive content thats great.

    If others want to get in on this they must support the creators of the forums and the game.
  20. AraxisHT

    AraxisHT Active Member

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    Re: Backers Versus Public Forum - Leave the hate, embrace lo



    My post.
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    Your head

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