I know, great way to start a forum career... hear me out, since I feel like this is important. I've been playing for a little bit after New Year and have been loving the game. I play the assassin somewhat religiously, and have welcomed each improvement to the gameplay. Uber Entertainment has made some great changes, but there is one in problem in particular that I've come across with the Assassin that has really made me feel that some kind of nerf is required. One of the recent changes before the beta ended was the power of the Knife/Sword on turrets, and how quickly the assassin can bring them down. It's even quicker with juice, and you can bring down a bunch of level 3 turrets very easily with just one juice at the moment. This is only enhanced by the fact that you can usually just go and buy a juice or grind one out fairly quickly. This creates a massive problem where a lot of cash that a team has put into turrets can fly out the window, often discouraging from them putting up any more since they'll just be ripped down again in seconds. The only real counter to this I've seen is a good Support class player actively defending the money ball area at all times with firebases, hacks and airstrikes, with little reward. My recommendations are as follows 1) Make it so that Juice decreases faster for classes that gain juice faster. Assassin is the quickest, so make her juice run out faster. 2) Reward people more for defending around the money ball area, give the support a bit more encouragement for defending his team's moneyball 3) Make turrets a bit tougher overall, they should be worth every penny you put down on it. Just as long as you make it so that the Assassin isn't able to rip down a full set of turrets by herself in one juice, then you've fixed probably one of the bigger balance issues at the moment. I have to admit that it's hilarious hearing my friend scream over mumble "IT COMES", as if I'm the Cthulhu of turrets, but the followed rage was something that made me feel like there really was a problem with this.
http://www.uberent.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=6591 The last change before launch actually decreased her damage to turrets. They also decreased the amount of juice she gains Juiced Assassin's are easy to deal with once you know how. Also Shave-Ice turrets take the 5 turrets she can take out down to maybe 2. Also if you see an Assassin heading towards your base with juice DO NO RUN AWAY. Juice only lasts 10 seconds. Distract her and waste her juice.
Ok, I'm fully aware of all this. I've had my share of attempts of rushing in on turrets, only to see my hopes dashed by a random assault dash in on me or something similar. More often than not though (probably 4/5 times) I have literally no trouble going in and doing damage. There are two problems with what you're suggesting here. 1) Not everyone knows how to handle them well 2) ShaveIces have to be placed in some pretty prime spots for them to be really effective, and to me that feels incredibly situational. Having them up, just because one class can wreck your entire defensive line is really counter productive. Good co-operation will probably result in that ShaveIce bring brought down by another class. As for distracting an assassin and making her waste her juice, well, good luck. I personally just pick my moment and attack when I feel like it will do the most damage to the enemy team. Being really patient with Juice can pay off in folds.
1) That's with everything in life. 2) Shave-Ice turrets are the most overlooked turret in the game. Every base you have 3 turrets on each side. No matter where you put them, if they are hacked they will reach to the opposite side of your base. Also with this turret out you are forcing the enemies to deal with them first, unless they want to be slowed and die. Shave-Ice turrets now have more health then Rock-It turrets, so that means it is going to be even greater for an enemy to destroy it thus delaying them even longer. These turrets also slow enemy bots and reveal enemy gremlins. Upgraded Shave-Ice's increase their slow radius while hacking them makes the slow-down greater and greatly increases it's range. I am a complete noob to PC gaming and I am able to distract and crowd control juiced Assassin's with Support, Tank, Gunner and Assault. I didn't list the other two Pros because I have yet to play them on the PC version. [Edit] Good co-operation will and can accomplish anything.
Shave-Ices are brilliant, especially now that they have extra health. Hack 'em and overheal 'em, and you'll have much less difficulty dealing with Assassins, Gremlins, Bouncers on spunky cola and Juiced anything. Teams get weird obsessions with taking them out as well, so they're an excellent distraction. A Tank can use up almost an entire Juice rush if you're careful - LVL3 Charge combined with the Railgun Grapple at the end. Finally, clever Juicing is important. 4 of the 6 classes will absolutely annihilate your base while Juiced, and there isn't a counter to clever players - unless there is clever players on the other team. In which case, they'll keep an eye on your filthy juice-whoring hide.
This. So very, very, this. I can't even begin to count the times I've jumped down to try and grab a juiced enemy while everyone else on my team is running for the hills... The worse example I've ever seen of this was one time our moneyball was down, almost destroyed, an assassin juiced, AND 3 PLAYERS FROM MY TEAM RAN AWAY while firing. No, don't pile up on the assassin. I'm sure the moneyball will be fine....idiots. If you see a juiced player in their own base, run away. If you see a juiced player in YOUR base do ANYTHING you can to ring them out or, at worse, stall them. Charge them, grapple them, slam them so they're stunned, spam attacks that blind them (product grenade, smoke bomb), freeze trap them... THROW YOURSELF IN FRONT OF THEM IF NEED BE.
Gotten quite a few kills with my sniper rifle of juiced assassins, they're no sweat really. Throw 2 freeze traps and dance around them, wait till theyre frozen and BE QUICK! Line up a few shots to the head! Freezetraps stops everything, its pretty nice to put them into close to turrets since sins are always going for em and whenever they try, they freeze, get shot, get shot more, probably dont die, but at least it slowed them down by 2 seconds of their 10 seconds juice! :lol:
Yeah, Sniper's ice traps are particularly valuable against juice. And yet I can't even begin to count the number of snipers I see just running away and shooting their SMG at a juiced assassin.
There are various tactics depending on what class you're playing as and if the Assasin is going for you first or just directly for your turrets. I can list the more effictive/popular ones herelisting from up to down in effectiveness between classes) If the Assasin is going for after the turrets: Tank-Charge 3, blind, Rail grapple. CLEAR. Gunner-Deploy, shoot. If shes already too close to the turrets, slam, AND SHOOT. Assault-Throw bombs, Charge(3 recommended if you actually use it.), shoot, try to attract her attention by running in front of her. Grenade Launcher grapple if everything else fails. Charge 3 only:throw your bomb precisely before your charge grapple hits and your bomb should be an auto-headcrab.(If not, it will land very close to her, blowing it up after you punch her will cause additional damage and launch her farther away or in another direction.) This works for while shes going for you too. Sniper-Place ice traps near the turrets, near, but too far away for the Assasin to hack it down. Go for the headshot. If she starts to kick dust to avoid getting topped, try to trick her into you're going in for an grapple. As soon she starts hacking towards you, shoot her head. Or just go in for the grapple as intended if she continues to melee. If she gets out of the ice trap/you dont have any left, Use your flak and try to atleast get an SMG grapple on her. Support(Some people may disagree with me on the Support being less ineffective on getting rid of juiced Assasins. But the Support is very slow and has no throws,dashs etc.) Throw airstrikes at the turrets and hope for the best. The Firebase-Shotty-Grapple combo is your other choice. AZAZN:Grapple and Smoke bomb, that is all. If the Assasin is going after YOU: Tank-Charge 3, blind, Rail grapple.(sounds familiar?) Gunner-Shoot. Slam. Shoot. Grapple if she gets close again. Assault-The charge3-bomb combo works very well here. If you dont have charge 3: Jump-charge over her head and throw an bomb into the ground, lure her into run into it and boom. Or just blow her up from the beginning. Sniper-Throw ice traps. Lure her into hit and shoot her in the head. TRY to grapple her if she starts to kick dust. Support-Firebase-Shotty-Grapple. Otherwise go for an airstrike martyr. AZAZN-Smoke bomb jump. Try to grapple her if she starts running for somebody/something else after you flee. Juiced tanks, on the other hand....He will kill you. And 1-2 of your turrets. This. Times ovar nain thausand. Derp.
I'm assuming we're talking about a juiced assassin here: Now why would you do that? Sure, you'll probably end up killing her, but I can guarantee she'll take the turret or damage the money ball first. Instead, use that lovely grapple you have as a gunner. At lvl 2 it tosses the enemy across the map. You might not kill her (actually you're very likely to, due to ring out), but you'll make sure she does no significant damage to your base whatsoever. If that fails, or if you're not close enough, slam her to stun. Then grapple. I disagree that charge 3 is recommended for general use. It has as many, if not more, downsides as upsides, so it's more of a sidegrade than upgrade. That said, If you have charge 3, it's the best thing to use here. Knock them out of the park! Agreed on the icetraps, but why go for the kill when it takes longer, is not assured (juiced survives headshots), and meanwhile is causing your moneyball/turret to take damage? Grapple. Lvl 2 grapple will toss them to another timezone, again, leaving your base unharmed. "Less ineffective"? So it IS effective according to you? Double negative there mate But yeah, of all the characters, Support is probably the worse to counter a juice with (unless he has juice himself). He does a nice grapple that takes a long, long while though. So, use that, and waste away the enemy's precious juice time. Also, if a juiced player is going after you, they're either incompetent or 90% of the times you're dead anyways. Juice is murder.
I like that you all tried to point out ways in order to defend against this, but you are suggesting things that require a dedicated defender or two to protect the turrets. They aren't. The only thing that was really changed was the speed at which an assassin can obtain juice. Nerfing the amount of damage done by the sword/knife or Shurikens did nothing because it didn't factor the damage multiplyer added when you are juiced up. I have played the game enough to realize that the only thing that the patch has done is length the time it takes for the inevitable to happen. Most of what people suggest seems to be stuff like Freeze Traps, ShaveIce's and Tanks. You are all falling under the impression that the assassin coming to crush your defensive wall has the mental capacity of a steamroller. If I ever see a sniper, I know he's probably got a freeze trap near where he is sniping, I know that a Tank will wreck me quicker than any other unit in the game and I stay totally clear of them, and I know that a ShaveIce isn't a problem if I can just shuriken them from afar. Maybe when this game matures a bit and people develop some clear strategy that rewards both offensive and defensive play, then I would be willing to agree with what people are suggesting. At the moment though, defenders are a rarity, and a real privilege to have on your team. You are simply not rewarded enough for defending, and you gain nothing but the satisfaction that your team has a better chance of winning because of your team work. Watching two level 3 Rockit turrets go down because of one assassin jumping in with juice, is terribly demotivating to build anything like that again. $1800 cash is a lot to go out the window in this game, especially when it can be better used on things like upgrading skills, buying bots, using annihilators and on the odd chance that you can, buying juice. The real issue here is simply the fact that a Juiced assassin is simply too devastating at attacking turrets at the moment, and a smart enemy assassin is a death sentence to your team.
Juiced level 3 shuriken only does about 70% to the money ball. Juiced level 3 assault nades can do anywhere up to 140% plus the AoE damage will kill anyone defending. Juice normally runs out before an assault can do 80% It's faster and does more damage than the shuriken. I don't really think it needs a nerf. Normal level 3 shuriken does about 2-3% per full clip. I think what needs to happen is turrets need to up upgrade faster when the money ball is down and during overtime (maybe) and players should be rewarded more per hit when they are in and around the circle of the platforms around the money ball. That last part will probably cause a lot of camping though so i'm not sure how good of an idea it is.
OK well all this talk of juiced assassins destroying bases but don't forget that assassins are the ultimate turret poking class.. I've been testing the assassin and trying different tactics with her. One tactic, while super boring and makes me feel dirty, has a 100% win rate. I just rush the base with gold ammo clip, n silver fire rate. Perch myself somewhere with a view of their turrets but out of harms way and then just hold down left click. In a couple of minutes I've knocked down all their turrets. Anyone comes, smoke, jump, stealth, chill until they get bored n go back to the action, start shooting again. Once their turrets are down I mash up a few waves of bots on respawn then wait for the win. If anyone comes back to rebuild turrets I can put them down again before they have the gold to upgrade them to level 2... It makes me feel dirty and I'd much rather be out hunting newbs but I've seen it catch on... More and more assassins are just poking down bases and in truth, I can't even be bothered to stop them. I'd rather have fun in the middle of the map and lose than win by camping at my spawn waiting for assassins.. Nerf nerf nerf.
The only reason why players are getting away with that tactic is because your enemy is plain stupid. Lets see... A smart Support would just sit there healing the said turret and will thank you afterwards once he gains juice in about 30 seconds from healing the turret. A smart player would hear the cloak and be able to pin-point exactly where you are. Lastly, there are way easier ways to destroy enemy defenses as Assassin and that is helping your team control enemy bots then gaining juice. buff buff buff giving the game time.
I think i can agree only to some point. A juiced Assassin can wreak havoc in a base, but only if the other team really lets her do so. I can't remember the times that i just run to the opposing teams base all juiced up and see how everyone just gets out of my way. They only start to attack when the juice runs out, and by then it's too late to save the turrets (Plus some of the times it gives me enough time to smoke jump out of the situation). Really, if you have the time to Shuriken a ShaveIce down to zero from afar, then the defending team is doing something really wrong.
