Assassin Changes

I have some reqests for the assassin. The assassin depends on the grapple to kill most enemies. While the grapple is really useful, it can be hard to grapple gunners, tanks, and assaults who are CONSTANTLY jumping.

Even when I get the grapple on the way down, the grapple doesn't take due to lag, latency, etc. and it is very frustrating because then the person turns around, juices, and destroys me.

I am sure that I am not the only one experiencing this. Try grappling kckzi, Deadeye, or Miracle. They are CONSTANTLY JUMPING, even when there is no reason to jump. This makes getting a grapple nearly impossible.

The assault already has the jump pack which guarantees grapple resistance. Jumping constantly is just another form of assassin resistance which gives them a 90% chance of not getting grappled.

It is very frustrating because it could be argued that jumping constantly to avoid grapples could be a form of K/D padding. The assassin depends on the grapple for 75% of kills, without the grapple the assassin is heavily nerfed in comparison to other classes.

The only fix that would be "fair" would be to put some sort of a jump limiter on all the classes. Jumping has its place, such as to avoid fire in a fight and etc., but the spam jumping really nerfs the assassin.

The jump limiter would have to be set to some sort of a variable like no more than 20 jumps per minute or something like that. Or maybe if a person jumps 10 times in a row, they have to wait 5 seconds before jumping another 10 times.

Another reason to add some sort of jump limiter is because Snipers and Supports are more likely to get grappled because they HAVE to stand on the ground to perform certain feats. Without the jump limiter this makes jump spamming assaults, tanks, and gunners EXTREMELY OP.

The assassin is a bot and turret killer. She doesn't need to be a pro killer even though if you do get a back grapple, it's a 1 hit kill to all classes besides the tank which is OP enough to some (a whole other topic in itself). If you really feel like slaying with the assassin just go on a rampage of juiced shurikens or stabs considering the assassin accumulates juice the fastest..

The assassin is good in the right hands. And in fact, there are several instances where the assassin back grapple is not lethal. A level two grapple will only kill all snipers and assassins and any class besides tank who is not using gold armor. A level 3 back grapple will kill everyone but a slightly overhealed gunner or a silver passive 2 tank at full health.

I am not a big assassin player. I still enjoy playing assassin though. A good team will not allow an assassin to juice, period. If an assassin does juice, the entire team will grapple and charge the living snot out of the juiced assassin.

Any halfway decent player can avoid assassin grapples. The assassin cloak makes an earful of noise, and unless you are using dual mini guns in the middle of a group of turrets while juiced in a thunder storm, you cannot miss it. I might get back grappled 10 times a week. It takes a good assassin to take me down, and I don't spam jump either. In fact, the assassin is my most killed pro, and it is for many others as well.

A common misconception for the assassin is that it is a "kill bots, juice, die" class. That is stupid. The assassin is amazing in the right hands. When I play assassin against randoms lvl99+ I always go positive. I am a scary good assassin against players who don't jump-spam. I do play against some clawing tanks and gunners, but I normally leave them for my team mates to destroy.

When I play any other class, I might get killed five times a week by an assassin grapple. It usually takes a good assassin like dadale or RevRabies to kill me. Why? Most assassins are stupid. You can hear the cloak from a mile away. If you can't hear that, then you need to adjust your volume. The assassin has to get into close quarters combat at some point in the game. Her main weapon is the dagger or katana. Yes, a good assassin should push bots, but that isn't the only objective. The assassin is for spot removal of firebases and turrets. Nerfing the assassin's use of the primary weapon is crazy. The shruken isn't that great of a weapon unless you have a bad opponent or a deployed gunner. The assassin needs the ability to more consistently grapple pros. Since it is nearly impossible to decrease latency and lag, a jump limiter is almost necessary.

Ok wazupwiop, I have tried. I have honestly tried my hardest to not say something to you about your stupid f****** logic, but I can't hold my tongue any longer. It's like you fill these forums with tons and tons of posts/threads about the game, and I'm ok with that. What I am NOT ok is you filling the forums with threads and posts about changing the game this way and that way that don't make any sense what-so-ever, and all these guides that are either blatantly obvious, or retarded.

Here's what you need to start doing in order to avoid looking like an idiot over these forums:

1. Stop making hidden brag topics. You always mention something should be changed in this game, and then go on about how you got a good score doing this and that. No one cares, honestly.

2. Stop and THINK. THINK about how the changes you suggest would affect the game overall. These assassin changes you suggested for instance. If you're doing your job right as an assassin, you probably lead your team in money with the least amount of kills. Putting these "jump limiter" nerfs on the classes with jet packs is just stupid (lmfao "jump limiter", it just sounds horrible). Now why on Earth would you increase the chances of an assassin landing a grapple on someone by introducing a limiter such as the one you mentioned when she ALREADY has a specific role in the team, and performs that role extremely well. You have to go further than just the surface too. How are the jump limits going to affect the balance between lets say heavies and snipers? It's an entirely different can of worms.

No one conceptualizes that the assassin is "supposed to die". Seriously, no one.

A good assassin doesn't use her cloak when trying to sneak up on opponents, just saying.

I could seriously go on and on, but I won't because I think you get the point.

You need to take a step back, re-evaluate, and then move on from there.

yes, I made.

Learn2assassin.

Oh, and one more thing. There's always a reason to be jumping in this game. If it was possible, I would map the A button to STOP jumping, not start it.

I actually do think about the changes. When you are traveling from your base to mine and I am spawn trapped, there is no real reason to jump. Jumping should be stratigic, not just a trick for constant evasion.

A good assassin will uncloak, I do as well. Even using that trick, a good opponent will ALWAYS be aware of the surroundings. I wouldn't make guides if there wasn't a need for them. I soo way too many noobs who stand still and are like "HOW DID HE HEADSHOT ME?!"

There are many good gunner, assault, and assassin guides. I made 2 support guides and one or two sniper guides. That isn't alot.

This really wasn't a brag topic. I was showing the difference between jump spammers and those that don't spam jump. If my comparison was bad, I apologize, I was just saying the truth.

/end or post and end of explanation

One is taking a risk and the other one doesn't. One is good and the other one isn't.

Very true. Jumping should really be more strategic though. Jumping for the sake of jumping is stupid. Jumping for the sake of defense is smart. I just want to get rid of the unnecessary jumping, that is all this thread was about.

There was no hidden brag message hidden in this thread, I am not like that. I was just listing some of my experiences of randoms vs. people who knew what they were doing. I did not mean to brag, I was just listing my experience. If you have a problem with my experience. Talk to me in a PM.

NO. For the love of god, did you not understand anything?

Jumping constantly is a good thing. You do not want to be the idiot who got backgrappled which can be easily avoided. Do not take risks, dying is a bad thing you know.

No, he doesn't understand.

If there is an assassin on the other team, guess what? There's a reason to jump. If there is a sniper on the other team, guess what? There's a reason to jump. If there is a tank, gunner, assault, or support, guess what? There's a reason to jump. Everyone knows you're a harder target to hit if you keep moving both horizontally and vertically.

Putting a jump limiter in place would flip the game upside down.

Try to win a competitive game without an assassin. Won't happen. The class is fine as is.

Also, it's not as easy to avoid being grappled as you claim. Air grapples. Grappling out of charges. I've even been grappled out of the assault's level 3 charge. It can be quite ridiculous.

^ This. Also when I play assassin I just do the same thing to them jump all crazy while slashing around them in circles. The more overconfident the person is in their jumping or jetpacking saving their life the easier this is to do. Also Lunge hits targets in the air with the top of the swing animation. If I've already pulled off any form of grapple this kills them. If not I wouldn't be bothered with fighting the pro anyway as a sin.

You mentioned people not dying from the back grapple and the method above easily deals with this. Especially when it comes to gunners; you know they are going to slam right after you grapple them so jump immediately after while slashing. 9/10 times I wind up on top of their head, they can't shoot me at all, and they die. Obviously more skilled gunners will attempt to save slam or fake you out, but the workaround remains the same.

New players using the gunner can be easily killed with no grapple at all using the above method. Just jump on top of their head and slash away.

This class has issues, but they are mostly in the form of glitches: stutterstep, smokebomb host, lunging random distances, etc. They have no issues when it comes to dealing with pros and the objective when played as designed IMO.

i would say that most of my deaths as a gunner, at the hands of an assassin are by sword slashed alone.

The glitches have to be fixed. And the "jump on their head and slash" won't always work. This assumes that you actually grapple someone and they don't know how to avoid the jump. Any good player will rip apart an assassin. Have any of you besides Tom#'s played competitively against Miracle, Kckzi, Deadeye, or similar competition? They mow down assassins with ease.

Yes, there is a reason to jump if there is a sniper or an assassin on the enemy team, but I don't really want to talk about that right this second.

There seems to be a mindset that the assassin is there to push bots and destroy turrets, and to an extent this is true. The assassin is also there as a spot removal class. The classes are divided into three areas of expertise if you ask me:
Slayer: Gunner and Assault (capable of taking ground and pushing foreward)
Area Control/Denial: Support and Tank (capable of defending an area easily)
Spot Removal: Sniper and Assassin (capable of one-shot kills)

This isn't to say that the sniper cannot slay and the gunner cannot play as area denial, but this is the basic outline of what each class does best against pros.

I am not saying that the assassin should have the most kills at the end of the match, I am saying that the assassin needs to be better at what she was made to do, and that is spot removal. The assassin was made to remove bots, turrets, and pros from an area so the rest of the team could push forward. Against good players or under laggy conditions, getting the grapple to take can be an issue. Yes, the assassin can slash people to death, but try that against Wildman X2k, Chaos FF7, or Deadeye and get back to me. It just doesn't work that well.

These players I listed are WAY better than me; in fact, they are probably better than most players on MNC. The assassin is probably the second most nerfed class if you ask me. When a pro is in the air, they are almost guaranteed that they cannot be grappled. This just isn't fair for the ground-based assassin. The grappling mid-charge and mid-lunge needs to be fixed. That isn't just on the assassin either. The sniper can grapple mid-charge and mid-lunge as well, and I have done it a few times as support.

All I am saying is that there needs to be something done in the next DLC that makes the assassins life a little easier. The assassin has a bunch of glitches that have to be fixed for sure, but the game also seems very unbalanced against the assassin because the grapples only work half of the time, and good players can avoid the grapples and mow assassins down way too easily. I didn't say jump limiters were the answer, I listed them as a possibility. I think it might be okay for the assassin to be able to air-grapple though. That would just be an "added ability" like the assault being able to jetpack out of ice traps and the gunner being able to slam out of an airstrike. It might seem a little OP, but you have to think about the job of the class at the same time.

Assassin = bots/turrets. If your an assassin and your not in a lane don't even play. Only certain situations are acceptable for killing.

Well I guess we will have to respectfully disagree because yes I have faced the people you have named and killed them in the fashion I discussed. I am not claiming to be as good as them because I'm not, but that doesn't make them invincible either. As Tom#'s mentioned he dies the most from slashes not assassinations (hopefully he wasn't being sarcastic). The only person you listed that I struggle to deal with as an assassin is Chaos.

It's probably worth mentioning too that any time you are slashing someone you should be hitting their back or doing your best to do so as this greatly increases dmg with the sin.

Really though this topic is not a problem for me because I personally hold the opinion that the sin is almost solely for pushing bots. Since the class' goal in my mind is not pro slaying things are fine as is. If my intended kill isn't working out it's time to bail and go back to bot killing. As a sin you get to choose who you fight and when and for me that completely levels the playing field.

I agree with you that sin can serve as spot removal (secondary to sniper IMO) and I don't have any issues there either. Why? Because 9/10 times I'm called upon to get rid of a sniper not a tank or a gunner. Taking tanks and gunners out is more suited for a sniper's headshot. Also it may be worth mentioning that this class has one of the easiest times using ejectors netting you a wealth of kills without ever entering combat.

Just my 2 cents. Clearly we just have different opinions about the class.

The assassin should not stay in one lane the entire game. RevRabies is an excellent assassin. He pushes bots and kills all at the same time. He is the perfect example of what an assassin is supposed to do. Obsidianante is another example of an assassin who can kill and push bots at the same time. The explanation of " only push bots, kill turrets" for an assassin is very narrowminded.

No one is saying assassins should never kill any pros. I kill every pro I come across that I think I can take out and will not delay my clearing of bot lanes. The point people are making is that your primary goal should be keeping lanes clear of bots following that you can do whatever the eff you want including killing pros to your hearts content. Because the PRIMARY goal is not killing pros, their effectiveness at doing so does not bother me. Also it appears I just don't share your same issues or if I do they do not impact my effectiveness ingame, or enjoyment, or whatever.

Also, it's a given you should be working BOTH lanes as needed as the assassin not one (disregarding Spunky where more often than not I work inside the enemy base destroying bots not in the lane).

I know I'm not Obsidianyte, Bolt Aktion, or any other "known" assassin, but I've been playing the game since launch and am about to hit gremlin.

Sorry, waz. I'm not trying to be mean. I just really, really disagree with you on this point and a few others.

And waz, I have played one or two games with the big boys.