An argument for a focus on modding over 'tier 2' units.

Let me propose a few things, first. That if there is a strong modding system, creating your own 'tier 2' should be easy- Create a new factory, buildable only by a tier 1 engineer, capable of creating a suite of units that are more expensive, with higher statistics. That is, after all, effectively what tier 2 is.

I'd like to see the developers have a hearty focus on creating a broad base of 'capability' for the units, over working hard to make units using those capabilities that are balanced for the base game. Take, for example, the old Spider unit, and its ability to gradually paralyze. The addition of a 'paralysis' mechanic is less of a challenge than balancing that mechanic to make it useful.

I'm not saying the devs should completely slack off on the creation of units, and make the game just a whittling block- I don't think they'd want that, either, because this is a group of passionate folks.

What I do think is that there are a lot of fun ideas that, while possible to implement, would take an excessive amount of work on the part of the devs to balance before release- A task that the devs aren't nearly as qualified to deal with as a group of some 50,000 players who are obsessed with the game and the best ways to win.

On the other hand, Planetary Annihilation is calling on one of the most vigorous modding communities that has ever existed in gaming. A set of vigorous, effective unit modding tools, something that's relatively simple to pick up, with a decent 3d modeler dumbed down enough for players to be able to use, would be a god-send. In combination with a widely accessible engine, this would make many of the pie-in-the-sky elements that people want a lot easier to achieve.

Summary being, then, that 'leaving in the code' while not implementing it for the base game is something that I think should be encouraged. It'll give the community lots of room to grow, which is the reason why I think that Total Annihilation developed such a devoted fanbase in the first place.

Does this make sense? I don't see enough games nowadays with really exciting modding tools that look like I could actually use them in some feasible way.

I'd like to see a proper, and full, set of T2 units for ranked and official games.

Custom games are exactly that - custom. If people want to mod in more T1, T2, or T9001 units, then let them.

There should be no focus on modding over T2. The focus should be on making PA superb, without relying on content from the community.

This. I didn't even have to read the OP, thanks BM.

Mike

Well, so far, my understanding has been the idea of a two-tiered system, but with tier 1 being 'generalist' units, capable in large fields, and tier 2 being 'specialist' units, with a more specialized skill-set, but not a tier-based level of quality, where tier 1 units are inferior to tier 2 units as a rule, as was the case in TA and SC. It'd be nice to see an advanced units thing going on, because that's one of the big things I loved in Total Annihilation and Supreme Commander, the gradually increasing scale of war- But I think that mod tools will allow a community to achieve that, even if it may not fit with quite what the Devs want for the base game.

I think that there's a game that can be made superb by the devs, which is what they're going to make superb, and capable of standing on its own- But as it stands, I don't really think that it'll involve multiple tiers of units. What they can do is give the community the ability to expand on the game, and add what they want- like multiple tiers of units, or space combat, or whatever else.

Edit: More or less- I'd love to see good modding, and good multiple tiers of distinct units. However, I prioritize a good modding system over good multiple tiers, because I think that's more likely, and simpler to implement.

Ha ha ha! No.

Allowing users to create thier own content is great. Trying to make User Created content PART OF THE GAME is bad.

Mike

If I understand ajoxer correctly he simply wants a set of modding tools available. I heard nothing of integrating user content into the base game or competitive play. I second the need for modding tools, and agree ÜBER should focus on the core experience first and foremost. If modding tools aren't available at launch they'd be appreciated soon after.

I think that if somebody makes a really great, balanced map, or a fantastically well-thought-out unit, the fact that it's user content shouldn't necessarily prevent it from being considered for competitive gameplay, but honestly, that's nunna my business- I'd probably get eaten alive in any kind of competitive gameplay.

I'm saying there are three focuses: The core gameplay- IE, the things that Uber's confirmed. The modding capabilities- The tools, and the elements of the basic engine needed to allow modders to add new elements to gameplay. And the undecided features- Space combat, teleportation, tier two, three, etcetera units, experimentals, neutral structures, and so forth.

I rate those three focuses, in priority, in that exact order- First their core gameplay, so they make the best game they can from what they've already stated they want to do. Second, a really robust modding kit. And third, if they find that it's within their ability to do in a balanced way, adding additional features. I don't think that any of these are bad things- I just think that's the way I'd like to see the to m prioritize.

Edit: And thank you to nickgoodenough, for helping me focus my scatterbrained thoughts.

he didn't mention anything about it, but it would have to be a consequence if you move relatively standard game elements into the modding area.

In the end it depends what you yourself judge to be as part of the core game and what as not necessarily needed (= to be added via mod).

That's independent of the generally large interest for a viable modding system.

The developers have their own vision on what a great game would be like, and they should focus on creating that. They have their vision on a gaming experience and the best way to have an enjoyable gaming experience is to enable them to create what they envision.

Each of us, however, has slightly different ideas. And that's why it's great to have modding tools available - such that the modders can realize their own vision of a great game. Sometimes we may feel that an extra unit would make the game better, and modding it in would enable us to do just that. Sometimes it means creating a total conversion that redefines the entire game - essentially creating a new (free) game on an existing engine. It is great if we can do all of that.

Yet by no means should these visions be mixed. There is the original game, as intended by the developers, and there are the mods, creating the game as envisioned by the modders. Mix up the two and you lose the essence of both.