All bots are not Equal

Gap shots are amazing on 3/4 maps and they are still decent on steel peel if you escort them. Before the bot timer was changed gap shots were ridiculous.

Gremlins are amazing in how much money they make back for you (apparently from killing bots). Their real value is that as they are fast, invisible and they are way too good at bringing down the ball (if no pros are on the gound). You also get four of them with each purchase.

Buzzers can hurt a turret pretty badly and will kill lighter classes but they are not effective vs mediums or heavies. However they move very quickly and they fly so this makes up for their other problems.

That leaves Bouncers and Scramblers which are both rather terrible with the timer changes.

Scramblers are by far the worst bot. Considering they have a weak melee attack and move rather slowly it would make sense if you got two of them. One for $100 just doesn't really do anything. But at the same time I think I can live with this considering the sniper has so many other advantages. His weapons and skills seem to have a synergy that no other class can match.

At this point I don't really feel bouncers are worth $100 either. Heavies tear through them, the assault can avoid them by flying, supports can combine a few shotgun blasts with a grapple and easily kill them, and assassins can outrun them. They are quick but not fast enough and their grapple is about as good as the level one gunner skill. If they had a charge attack or a laser eye beam things might be different. And why exactly do gunners and tanks spawn the same bot? Before the timer change two, three or even four bouncers were still not very effective.

I'd be willing to leave bouncers and scramblers as they are if you could call them in by remote. Maybe a $50 remote fee should apply but any more than that wouldn't be worth the cost. Or perhaps the timers for these last two kinds of bots should be changed back to the old value.

If this is too far fetched would it be possible to set a bot spawn queue? I don't want to sit at my base for most of a minute if I want to send out some bouncers. I'm often sitting on a few thousand in cash and really don't have much worthwhile to spend it on. I don't think it would be fair to queue up bots on both sides but is it to much to ask to have a little automation? I could see adding a one time fee for each lane to allow for a queue effect... say $100 per side.

Let me flip that around for you. Say I'm an Assasin, sitting on 1000 in cash. I can now set up a queue of Gremlins. Supports can set up a queue of Gapshots. not quite as badass, but the point remains.

Interesting ideas.

I don't think allowing bots to be in queue is remotely fair though. Part of the fairness of spawning bots is that it takes you time when you mass spawn them.

IMO bouncers and scramblers aren't bad enough to warrant a spawn timer reduction.

Bouncers can be grappled yes, but they also have a slight lunge that sometimes gets me when I'm trying to grapple it. Even if it doesn't kill me outright, there's almost always an enemy or even a blackjack there to finish the job.

A lot of people say scramblers are the worst bot, and they're right. You get one, they're weak and slow. But what nobody mentions is that they are extremely useful 3 times a match.
Whenever a jackbot spawns and I'm a sniper, I mass spawn scramblers on that side. It prevents people from grappling the jackbot and if some of your team is escorting it to the other base, an un-grappleable jackbot is a big advantage.

That's theoretically a clever idea. The problem there (and I've done this on blitz) is that you can cheat the skill drain aura. If you start it right as the drain is about to happen the skill still goes off. Is the assassin even affected? Every map also has high ground where you can drop onto the jackbot (and you can cheat the aura). I just shoot the jackbot to death anyway.

I don't like the standing in my base part for almost a minute. It's not fun and that should trump fairness.

Gremlins and gap shots are almost twice as effective for the same cost. That's why I suggest the crappiest bots should be able to be spawned faster. Buzzers are the middle of the road bot. Seriously though did you play when you could spawn in bots super quickly? Buzzers, Gremlins and Gap shots decimated. No one ever spammed scramblers. People tried spamming bouncers but they just don't do much.

Bouncers grapple you to death.... which would be fine if the grapple killed you outright on low hp classes. But it doesn't do that much damage. There is a long pause before they can do it again. By comparison gremlins hit you from stealth (and get bonus damage for that) and keep hitting you. Bouncers hit you with a grapple.... wait and then grapple you again. That's poor design.

I have to agree that the problem was too many gapshots and gremlins, versus too many of the other bots.

I still spam Gremlins sometimes.

I shouldn't say still. I never did it before the timer was changed. I'd spawn them occasionally. Sometimes, I will walk back and forth between the two spawns and just blow 100 bucks at a time.

Though I do the same with Bouncers. Bouncers have their uses, albeit not as many.

I think the answer is obvious. Make the timer 30 seconds and double the cost of all bots.

Gunners should be saving their money for juice anyway. LEARN YOUR CLASS, NOOB! LOLOLOL!

(am I doing it right?)

I've seen a friend just spam gremlins from the base and buy no skills. He used to do the same thing with gapshots. Gapshots were far more effective but gremlin spam is still a bit too effective (against randoms).

Really you think they're worth the same as a gapshot or 4 gremlins? Let's be honest... I think not. Bouncers would be great if you could give them some kind of a delay. Wait here for 30 seconds then move forward. Considering they run faster than I do I can't really do much to make use of them. They are a single obvious target that doesn't do enough damage and is too easy to destroy.

I obviously don't think they're worth the same, as almost everything you quoted from me should have indicated to you.

How much damage does the bouncer grapple/hit do?

I do think the Scrambler needs a slight boost. The Jackbot tactic is great to use (having done so myself) however it's usless if there is a gunner or a sniper (with level 3) as they are gone in a second.
I said before the Scramblers in Crossfire need to be their "Green Blitz" equal. Keep them the same but give them the stats of the Scrambler in Blitz when the bots are green. Will give it that extra slight boost to make it more useful.

I do find it annoying that the Tank and Gunner spawn the same bot. I agree it works but I feel each should function a bit differently. Gunner spawns normal one (maybe add a little more health). Tank spawns one that is equal to the "Green Bouncer" from Blitz BUT with lower health. Appearance could just be Darker blue (blitz) and Orange (blitz) So Tank spawns a faster harder hitting one BUT it's easily killed if seen early.
This would make each better for different areas. The Tanks would be VERY useful for base door campers and mid-field attacking due to the speed but due to lower health it will be killed easier on longer runs (like to enemy base). The Tanks would be great for defense also due to higher health and would be great for enemy base campers. Send them in and watch them scramble.

I thought the grapple would kill a stock Assassin, personally. I take a serious chunk with gold armor. It seems to do half my life bar or better if I'm a Support with silver armor, though. I didn't think it's THAT weak, though it could be much more effective.

I've lately found that buzzers are good against camping snipers. Especially if you can spot him, hit him a few time with your assault rifle and distract him long enough (while dodging his shots), then the buzzers take care of him.

lol, great argument, I'm sold!

I can see everyone's point about the stronger/more effective bots. I've been playing since day one and I do remember the 5 second spawn times.
At the very least a monetary change might make things better?
Maybe 75 for bouncers/buzzers and 50 for scramblers.
Or, 75 for all three and spawn 2 scramblers?

I know the money fix doesn't do anything about your issue with the times but, at the very least it keeps your wallet a little heavier.

That was my biggest point, 5 second bouncers still didn't ever do much. Turrets wtf pwn them, they rarely ever kill anyone and they just feel like a waste of cash. I'd be willing to make bouncers $50 and scramblers $25. Or I'd go for two bouncers at the same time (both come out instantly) and three scramblers come out with a slight delay inbetween or as one big group.

bouncer might not kill someone right out, but is harasses and you can then kill a pro while their attention is turned.

It takes about half the health bar on a sniper with gold armor, which means that on an unarmored sniper or assassin it will kill them or get very close to it at least. Basically, it takes 1/2 to 1/4 health to the more heavily armored classes and 1/2 to all of the weaker class's health.

I'd be happy with either of those two

I wouldn't mind if the bouncer grapple did 150+ damage so I have to waste a grapple on it. Right now I just slash them since I know they can't kill me.

Exactly! Who's afraid of a bouncer? No one playing crossfire. I hear, "someone kill that gapshot now", quite often. Or I hear, "Look out, Gremlins!"

Funny how when i spawn bouncers I get kills.