About the most recent balance changes

Eh I cant say that they are completely bad but I cant agree with the speed of the current charge speed and downtime.

It could be faster in both respects but i find that the bomb change was spot on in bot charge and moneyball damage.

Before I get off my soapbox I'd like to say that MNC needs advertising crucially but keep tweaking for the better. That and the recent changes have brought on a lot more of the heavier classes which can be frustrating no matter which class you play.

I guess we can only hope that this upcoming patch will make everyone happy, or at least close to.

I played Assault for a bit post-patch, having never played it much beforehand. Considering that autograpple regularly destroys light classes and can seriously injure medium ones, the longer charge cooldown makes some sense. I also played Tank for the first time, and found the charge to cooldown awfully quick - until a sniper showed up, then it made sense.

Assault is capable of getting into combat with other medium and light classes and holding an advantage the entire time. He is no longer capable of charging in (just to use the phrase) to battle with a heavy and having the same advantage throughout the fight - now he needs help, since he's both slightly less armored and has to wait longer to use his charge. AR/GL/Bomb damage was unchanged, so his weapons' damage output is the same. Charge -> Autograpple is just less spammy now.

A clanmate of mine used to go 20+k/5-d every game prepatch, and that hasn't changed since it was released. Assault is just as viable, he just requires more careful planning and tactics now. Bomb had its cooldown reduced, for example, and has a massive range plus afterburn at L3. Work that into your gameplay for great justice.

I believe people have done the numbers on this and found it to be not entirely accurate.

While the cooldown on the skill was reduced, the fact that it doesn't recharge while the bomb is in the air counters that somewhat. I think you can throw Lv1 and Lv2 bombs slightly more quickly, but Lv3 bombs effectively had their cooldown increased.

^ what was said by zar is completely true.

Bombs have actually a fairly significant INCREASE to their cooldown thanks to the no recharge while deployed. Even if you blow up the bomb as soon as possible (1second) the cooldown for level 3 bomb is now longer than before. Forget about medium range throws (wanna throw a bomb up to one of the ejector buttons on Ammo Mule? you just increased your bombs cooldown by 30%) Throw a bomb but forget to detonate because an assassin suddenly lunges at you? O well. your loss.

The only reason that I really didn't care about those lighter classes being destroyed with the charge 3 is that the Sin has cloak and a horribly liberal back-throw window (just slightly off center and it seems like she gets a back throw), and the Sniper get to stand in a dark safe corner and pick off people at random with no aim required like other games. If they get great one shot kills, then they should fear the assault for being able to charge them out of existence. Not keep their powers and nerf the other so it feels 'more fair'.

Of course there will be the statement "How is it fair to lighter classes that the charge is so uber"? To this, I answer what everyone answered to us Assaults after the nerf hammer: "They just need to play smarter". It seems that statement only applied to Assaults and not everyone else.

The cooldown reduction was an offset for the balance change, not a buff.

Give the assassin an autograpple too then. The same rules apply - just play smarter and it won't be a problem.

True. Except that they didn't do it for bomb 3 at all. Thus it was a flat nerf once you upgrade to bomb 3.

if you mean an auto grapple added to lunge no no no no no
lunge is too important a tool for bot killing adding grapple would ruin it

Hm, forgot about that. Make it so it only grapples pros and we'll call it a day.

Wait, wait, wait. You want to put an autograpple... on a skill that has a recharge time of 4 seconds...?

Half that. Lunge has a 2second recharge.

The autograpple against lights isn't really an issue, you have no business being near an assault as a sniper/assassin. Even when I play ginger stepchild assaults rarely get near me. If they feel like charging they hit an increadilby obnoxious ice trap,If they take the time to go around it I just Flak them into a retreat.

I still want lunges/charge speeds changed, but I've come to the conclusion the best way to do what I want to them is with mods. When mod support comes out I'll test it out to see if it works better, if not I'll drop the issue.

As for the whole bomb thing. I thought it was ridiculous from the getgo that the bomb timer recharged while one was out, it made no sense to me. I like the way bombs work now, you shouldn't get resources back until you've utilized them. I don't play much assault, so I can't tell how bad the nerf was for the lvl 3 bomb charge time an whether it hit the right timing but I agree with how it works currently.

The only "balance" point I have with the most recent patch(that doesn't deal with charge speed, but that's a whole other issue) is the assassin nerf on G3. That was unintentional and is being fixed.

Of course not.

Just wanted to point out that "just play smarter" does not by itself qualify as justification for a particular skills power.

I'm well aware charge's power is balanced by upgrade cost, cooldown and some other factors.

Assaults are my second most killed class as someone who rarely plays a class that isn't assassin. I've got no problems dealing with charge if i see them coming. Once they're in charge range or suspect i am they will proceed to slam thier face on that charge button 99% of the time

Lunge itself does not need modification, on that note. Unless you intend to buff the sins health to compensate for a major drop in escape ability.

Who in this thread asked for a lunge nerf?

..You said you'd like to change it. I can't see why you'd like to increase it.

http://www.uberent.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=9243
If you can get through the massive walls of text I hope you'll see where I'm coming from.

...Interesting.

I'd like them to fix the lunge bug where you'll lunge and go nowhere.
The ricochet bug where you'll lunge, hit something on the side and go flying off to the side (see also: usually ring yourself out for no damn reason)

And where the assassin seems to have a problem accelerating from a stationary position (even with dash active which drains dash and provides no benefit)

Before they think about tuning the speed of my lunge.

Also if you still think dash is useless as you mention, you're missing out on half your mobility. Dash 1 is pretty worthless with the acceleration problems i mentioned earlier, but i find Dash 2 is invaluable. If you want to hide the dust clouds, accelerate to full speed and bunnyhop. I rarely buy Dash 3 unless i'm having a particularly bad day with lunge's glitchy behaviour.

But yes, i see where you're coming from in terms of scaling charges and lunge to your speed modifiers but... that could be rather dangerous at high speeds or on ledges.

I laugh in the face of danger hahahAAAAAAAAHHHHH*splat*.

I think it's funny that an assault change prompted my re-evaluation of a system that would change the assassin the most. I never play assault, I play assassin all the time

I figured I'll try it out as a mod though before I push the issue again. If I feel it works incredibly well I'll suggest it be added to the standard gameplay with Uber quality balancing. If not, it was only a mod, no harm done.

While Dash 3 isn't a necessity, I find it to be extremely useful in traversing large maps quickly as it almost never runs dry. For example, Ammo Mule, or Grenade.