A question for the Devs:

As a resident fanboy of yours who has backed about 75% of your changes to the game across both platforms, and as a person who looks at things with a generally open mind, I simply must ask the following question:

Would you mind making a single post in this thread explaining to the community what were the balance/gameplay considerations tossed around for the drastic nerf to money-ball health?



I actually loved most of product update 8 including the overtime change, but I can't remotely justify this money-ball change. Maybe I'm missing something.

Also while I'm thinking about it:

Could you explain to the community why you would implement the "no overtime unless tie" settings without addressing bouncers and gremlins who will occasionally bypass bots and turrets to jump on the money ball?

Post "/signed" if you want to reply and support this thread, but please don't try to answer this if you are not a developer at uber. [HI, DEADSTRETCH!] They are far more likely to respond if we are less snarky.

I can't help it.....Although I too would like an answer to this.

[Edit]
/signed

It is so unlike them to not only make such a change but not discuss it any further. I am speechless and then immediately asking why.

Who does it help?
Why was this the best and most efficient option?
Who asked for this? What about the previous overtime rules?
How could they have been improved?
Why is all this information hidden?
What else changed?
Why must we infer based upon no patch notes or further information?
Have you been replaced by shooter hating robots?

/Signed

I wasn't going to respond to this because, in general, it ends up a very heated debate on either side. But since you started it Im Hudson, I will.

We're a very small team and are all very, very busy here working on extremely exciting new stuff. That means we only have time to do things that are easy to do. Fixing things like the rare occurrence of fodder walking by turrets and things like skills getting out of sync with the server are inherit issues with the base code that require a large, time intensive fixes.

So, back to your question, I made it so overtime only happened if both Moneyball healths were the same.
The reason:
One of the issues I saw happen often was that near the end of the game both teams would back into their base and attempt to defend until over time. Both teams, on opposite sides of the map, waiting for overtime, not engaging. That is not exciting game play. With making damage to the Moneyball mean a possible win, this forces one team to engage the other. Forces one team to go after the other team, not just sit in their base, on the other side of the map, not engaging.
So, the result of this change is that it puts much more emphasis on the breach moment of the Moneyball, meaning teams have to actually play defense before the point where the Moneyball shields were breached. Adding more team strategy and not just reactionary strategy.
Fast forward to this latest patch. What I found in a lot of the games I was playing was that the Moneyball rarely got destroyed. A little damage would be done and that would be it, time would run out and the game would end. Who wants the game to end that way? By greatly reducing the health of the Moneyball it, once again, puts a lot more importance of not letting the Moneyball get breached in the first place. It also makes it so that the games tend to end more by one team destroying the Moneyball over just waiting it out.

So there you go. Go ahead and fire away!

thanks scathis for clearing that up for us, but one last thing, patch notes? will we see them? or..? (also im sure arguing from other people will pop up after this post)

We didn't do patch notes because we've been completely swamped and crunching and there was very little changed.

It's this:
Added summer gear and new honor
Reduced Moneyball health

ok thank you for clearing things up for us, hopefully the engine update and everything else is going well.

Okay, here I go... Where to begin? I will sate that I have NEVER "really" played the PC version "online." I may have played a few matches here and there early on but that is it. So my point is coming from the 360 version compared to the chances that be.

I may be one in a few but the bots walking past turrets and skill recharges being delayed is not a big problem to me, I am able to adapt.

"One of the issues I saw happen often was that near the end of the game both teams would back into their base and attempt to defend until over time."

Um, this should be a given. OT is about to happen don't you think it would be wise for each team to fortify their own base so that "DURING" OT they would have little to worry about? After all this is a team game and if you don't act as one you will pay greatly. Example backing off just before OT to make sure your base is able to handle the onslaught of "suicide attacks."

Putting that much "more emphasis on the breach" really does make turrets a moot point, since the Pro Slaying Pros can do it much more effectively and at greater distances then turrets can reach.

Rewind a bit to the "latest XBox update" I find that even simple Pub games rarely make it to OT. On XBox the Ball would drop and that was it, the end of the match. Now maybe the Lvl 2 starting Rock-Its will chance how fast it happens but who knows?...

Again I can only speculate what will happen once and if these changes do carry over to the 360 version.

update xbox please.

Isn't that in the hands of M$ or at the time of the engine update.

Mind you this is properly fixing a game engine. A task split between only so few programmers.

As an addition:

With the clear up I see the reasoning and, like the OT change, cannot agree with the implementation and find the game to be borderline unfun.

I wish the idea about damage percentage was put into place but I'm willing to wait. I also wish that some sort of training or class introduction vids were done. Thing is its not that hard, if Uber is wiling to ask the fanbase to make a class video for ingame viewing a number of us would step up. I've been hearing rumor that better tips are available but I don't know.

I sympathize with the rush to get things done and the minor mishaps that occurred.

But a thought has come to me. Do we truly ask too much of Uber? They deliver a sense of humor, general competence and the willingness to listen. But do we ask too much for an indie company at the hands of Microsoft, running two platforms of a game with a dwindling playerbase on one and an enraged playerbase on the other.

I say that if we could we would pick up some slack. A good number of players and I had passed around the idea of making a map model in U3 that would serve as a training course for each class. Not a working model just a three dimensional representation of a training field that could have ques to use skills to pass tests. It could be call the genetic testing lab. Clones would wear prototype armor and whatnot.

We still care or at least I do after this update. Hearing others vocalize their opinions on mumble I can say a number of us came close to or just plain lost faith due to this change. But I believe MNC still has not reached the end of the road here. There are problems that I feel should be or should have been addressed and every update that passes by that does not bring that issue into line hurts.

MNC has a problem retaining players. MNC, despite a large initial curve and then a low general skill ceiling, has issues with getting the basics across or hammering home things that should not take too long to learn. The general oppinion is that OT happens way too often or that there is not drive from PC players to end a match. Stomping the other team is not that hard if but one person is not well educated. There are only so few maps.

Now on that last one I can understand. To restate you are small but I believe in you like many others do. You have defenders and backers that would step up to help in any way. This update won't stop me but it feels like I lost a good chunk of hope.

Also thanks for the gear. IT. IS. AMAZING. amazing!

didn't read the entire thread cos i have just woke up and my vision is blurry but imo the moneyball change makes total sense and if you think the game should have tutorial videos i think many people here are capable of making them, making a thread here and embedding them. So maybes a few of you who really think tutorials are important should get together and make some vids, i would but i am really shy and my voice is hard to understand if you are not from the uk

i'll probs edit this post when i realise that i am talking about something irrelevant, now time to get drunk.

Assassins have gotten an indirect buff here. Given their ability to keep the moneyball down, and the lower health of the moneyball itself, it's a pretty safe win.

Now all they need to do is fix it so that only bots may keep the moneyball down. Damage from players shouldn't really keep the moneyball down. It's far too easy to just run in shoot it once, smoke (or die, respawn) and repeat.

Pretty much.
3 classes out-DPS the Assassin in MB damage* but 2 are nowhere near her speed and 1 isn't much better

*Assault, Support, Gunner
#1. Gunner Minigun, Solo/Dual barrel
#2. Assault GrenadeLauncher
#3. Support Shotgun(by only 1 point tho)

Question on behalf of the majority of the Raw Messiah community: Is there a way to restore our server+clients to patch 7?

Yeah the money ball change has ruined this game. I'll take 20 minutes of playing, with an intense overtime, over a 3 minute steamroll where the top scoree is 900pts 6 games in a row.

As assassin I solo'd the money ball yesterday in one drop with one juice. I used to work between killing bots and keeping the money ball down. I had developped strategy to fight off defenders keep bots coming, and turrets down while continously firing shurikens at the ball in intervals. Now I just have to juice and shoot for 15 seconds and I win.

Who has fun playing 3 minute rounds? I get that you guys are busy, but thats not a good enough excuse when your backing a product. I'm pretty sure telling your community you are too busy to really pay attention to them and post patch notes is NOT a sound business practice, nor is it a way to bring back paying customers.

Here's an idea;

Why don't you just start the game with the moneyball down?
And better yet, restrict each lane to one of the teams, that way we don't even need to play against each other!

I'm sorry, I just played with the new update and normally I don't mind losing that much if I know there was an effort to it, but this game is simply just not fun like this.

Contradicting like you've done in the last two updates is simply just ridiculous, you've made the turrets more powerful so we can have a proper defense, thank you for that. But then you go ahead and nerf the poo out of juice! Yay, now all you need to win is 6 gunners and you're fine! Even before the update, gunner was STILL very useful for turretkilling, so why make him into the ONLY turretkiller? We don't mind varying in our gameplay thank you.

You also changed the overtime rules, so people actually have to engage in the game, and not turtle around, well that sounds neat! And I could actually live with that, BUT WHAT THE FUDGE?! So you decide to cut the moneyball so far down in health that all gameplay ends when one moneyball hits the ground! There is no fourth and back anymore which the game was about, it's simply about getting the ball down first.

At least glaze the poo with honey instead of horse manure.

I just played a game, I'm sorry, I'm venting, but my point should be clear.

So then the only people who would see them would be the people who don't need to see them. The problem is this: the game goes on sale, tons of people buy the game, get absolutely steamrolled because they have no idea what is going on, and then quit and never play again. They never come to the forums. A simple introductory "hey seriously, it isn't deathmatch you have to deal with bots" tutorial would have prevented tons of players from quitting.

I played a couple of hours today and I think it pretty much did what Scathis expected: The turtling has stopped. Boy, has the turtling stopped...

It was all out war for the whole match, first signs of organized team play. Something next to coordinated pushes with several players, even proper base defense. The problem is: inexperienced players now have a real problem! They do not know how to respond to a combined push, how to defend effectively.

All the matches I played today had a common denominator: Two or three experienced players made one unstoppable push and decided the outcome. Sometimes even a single player if he has juice at the right time. The other players barely have any impact on the match outcome. Many players had no idea what actually had happened and why the match was over.

The new balance will probably lead to more teamplay and less turtling. I think it will also drive new players away because they have no chance to learn the basics before they get repeatedly steamrolled. At least with the old system they were able to play some team deathmatch until they figured out how to become more effective.

I think it's too early to predict how this will play out but honestly, I'd like to have the moneyball health as server setting.

A lot of people told Uber to just put a tip or something into the game that promotes the forums, but nooooo, gear has a bigger priority.

Oh, and everything Jessep said regarding the teamwork was already there, nothing changed except you can't make a comeback against semi-decent players.