A Petition was made on steam.

Discussion in 'PA: TITANS: General Discussion' started by brandonpotter, August 19, 2015.

?

Are they nuts?

  1. Yes

    74.8%
  2. No

    25.2%
  1. eroticburrito

    eroticburrito Post Master General

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    I think the people who backed on Kickstarter had more faith and balls and if Uber wants to reward them for that then I don't see a problem with that.

    Quite irritating to see people complaining about price and demanding the expansion for free when we already have a 66% discount. It's like seeing your sibling got a toy because they did their chores, and then demanding you get yours when you did jack.
    Nicb1, Gorbles, doud and 1 other person like this.
  2. kalherine

    kalherine Active Member

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    Maybe you stop be stupid and understand the post or dont even comment!
  3. Morloc

    Morloc New Member

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    I thought about these statements a bit. I believe in capitalism, and yes, the company wants to make a buck. However...the usage of the word "expect" here is important. If I use the word in the sense that I feel that the company is obligated to deliver on certain things, then yes, that's not really their problem. If I use it to mean that I anticipate certain things will be present, while the company isn't forced to deliver, my satisfaction with their product and the company's ethics/skill/reliability will suffer. While I've already parted with my money, I've learned from the experience, and the company in question will be unlikely to benefit from any future business.

    I've played 1,000s of hours of TA/SC/FA. These are some of my favorite games as someone who has been playing video games for 30+ years. I've followed the evolution on these boards, and have tried on occasion to find love for PA. While I understand Uber's limitations when compared to GPG, I just don't see a great product. That's only my opinion, not some easily quantifiable analysis of what went wrong.

    Culminated? Asteroids came out in 1979. :p Yes, that was a poor joke.

    It may not be the industry standard, but I tend to define "content" a little more strictly. As an example, it might take a developer/artist many hours of hard work and talent to create...say....a line of decorative barding for your horse in a game. I wouldn't consider this "content" though. I certainly adds to the game, but I wouldn't whip out my credit card...it just isn't additional content. Again, this is my subject take on the matter.


    -Morloc
    maskedcrash and aevs like this.
  4. cola_colin

    cola_colin Moderator Alumni

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    I tthink the reason why PA has attracted so much negativity in that regard is that due to how it worked out with kickstarter and early access a lot of people build up wrong expectations. Yes mistakes have been made by Uber that didn't help to prevent this. But by now Uber can't do much about those wrong expectations. The expectations of many people go far beyond what Uber can possibly deliver, especially not for free.

    I define things like ranked play, save/load, new units (ubercannon, submarines), a system editor and asteroids as new content.
    Nicb1, Quitch, MrTBSC and 1 other person like this.
  5. MrTBSC

    MrTBSC Post Master General

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    why?
  6. cola_colin

    cola_colin Moderator Alumni

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    yeah that would be pretty extreme.

    Supreme Commander plus Forged Alliance cost ~75€ and people simply loved it.
    cdrkf, Nicb1 and cptconundrum like this.
  7. aevs

    aevs Post Master General

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    While I'll agree on that, I don't think that's the only reason.

    Anyway, I was going to respond to a (now deleted) thread about what I think is contributing to the backlash, and the three biggest points I can come up with are:

    1. Early access backers who paid a very large sum for the game, were not satisfied with the official release, and feel as though PA+Titans is more representative of the value they put in. This argument only really applies to people who were not satisfied with the base game as it was, whether it be due to roster size, terrain, gameplay, etc. If they think they ought to have had specific, unmentioned feature such as experimentals or some such, that is clearly not the case, but I doubt that's what most of these types of complaints are really focused on. It's also important to remember that people can judge things at wildly different values. Arguing about value isn't going to be productive, since it depends on personal preference and disposable income.

    Anyway, I doubt these types of complaints will last long, since most of these people would already have considered this a sunk cost for the better part of a year now, unless they've been vocal about dissatisfaction the entire time.

    2. The playerbase for the base game will die out, effectively devaluing it. (Sure, you can play classic games with Titans, but people will almost always choose a Titans game over a classic one for obvious reasons)
    This one is a bit weird for most people, since the community isn't something with an accounting value that you actually pay for when you buy a game. But the reality is that people don't value a game with a dead playerbase as high because the playerbase is part of the value.
    An example with arbitrary numbers: someone may have valued PA (+ multiplayer community) at $40 before, but without the community they may value PA at $20, and the expansion (+ multiplayer community) at $50. Which means they now feel 'forced' to buy the expansion they otherwise did not value as much in order to keep playing with the rest of the playerbase. I think a lot of people consider the effects of this, but don't really articulate why it upsets them, so they just air their frustration in other ways.

    The problem with that one is there really isn't any way Uber can avoid it, and it depends entirely on how an individual values a playerbase. DLC / expansions are always going to split a playerbase, it's just the reality.

    3. People who see the backer vs. kickstarter issue as favoritism, and feel that if they paid more they shouldn't get less. It's not necessarily because they aren't willing to pay (although that could be the case), but because they feel Uber is not being 'fair' with how that's decided. Basically some people get offended by things, business as usual.

    As for me, I'll probably buy the expansion once I get a good look at everything it offers.
  8. gmase

    gmase Well-Known Member

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    I really don't understand this kind of people. You say you've tried to find love for PA but you haven't... in more than a year?
    PEOPLE if you don't like this game forget about it and move on! don't start a crusade against the makers. I've seen movies (Terminator 5) bought games (Mirror's edge) that I don't like and I just forget about them. I don't start a demonstration. This sh*t is just entertainment and there is not a single piece of it that everybody likes.

    And about the price. Uber is a private company, they can give free copies to their friends, to poor people in Africa... So some of you took a risk paying $90 for an unfinishied game, they finished the game (when to call it finished is in Uber hands and that's the risk you took) and they supported it with updates for over a year. Now they made an expansion and you freely choose whether to buy it or not. If you don't nothing changes for you.
    cdrkf, Ksgrip, ornithopterman and 3 others like this.
  9. Morloc

    Morloc New Member

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    What's so hard to understand? You just threw a little fit accusing me of starting a crusade, or starting a demonstration and you're pointing your sweaty, shaky finger at me?? If you can't deal with criticism of a game you merely play (entertainment), take your own advice and just forget about it. ;)

    The game has changed in that time and there was always the possibility that it might become more interesting to me. The only way to know is to try it out once in a while and keep up with any changes as they come about. I really, really like TA/SC/FA, and given that this game is supposedly a "spiritual successor" of one or more of those games I really hoped it'd turn-around.

    -Morloc
    maskedcrash likes this.
  10. crizmess

    crizmess Well-Known Member

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    Additional to this, I think there is some kind of "reverse" post decision phenomenon going on.
    Even if early access is less risky then kickstarter, it still means that buyers reason more about the purchase beforehand than on an normal purchase of the same monetary value.
    I suspect that this can lead to an situation where people care more about the perceived value of an product than they usually would do, simply to justify their effort of the decision to buy it in the first place.
  11. pieman90

    pieman90 Active Member

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    Honestly this was probably the best option for Uber or would have stop supporting PA and moving on to PA 2 in order to fix this but people would rage about Uber abandoning the game even though after July all that's needed for PA is just bug fixes and everything in Titans has nothing that was promised in the KS it's all stuff Uber decided to add.
  12. maskedcrash

    maskedcrash Active Member

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    You don't go a restaurant, invest in it, and receive a fully cooked steak several months later. The metaphor doesn't work. Besides, a more accurate metaphor would be going to said restaurant, buying into the opportunity to get a nice steak at a higher price then everyone else in the hopes that you can influence the course of the steak (which didn't happen), having said restaurant try to start another restaurant before the first one is even nearly done, opening for business before said steaks are even done, and the steak that you DO eventually get is under cooked and tough in some parts. And then they want to sell you a meat tenderization and cooking 'expansion'.

    Certainly some people on steam are being unnecessarily whiny, but the decent chunk of them aren't wrong. The steak is unfinished.
    Morloc and planktum like this.
  13. cola_colin

    cola_colin Moderator Alumni

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    I can understand that some early access people feel that some kickstarter people got a bit too much free stuff, but this accusation is something I can't understand.

    PA itself isn't an unfinished game by any means. It might not be the game that some people dreamed of, but that doesn't mean that they can demand free updates forever imho.
    EdWood, cdrkf, Nicb1 and 3 others like this.
  14. squishypon3

    squishypon3 Post Master General

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    We did influence this game- massively. The KS backers and us EA players have been on these forums and have gotten many things changed. Many simple mods have been added to the game, and much of our critisizm here has affected the game positively. Such as the new CSG additions, the map editor, and etc...
    EdWood, cdrkf and maskedcrash like this.
  15. planktum

    planktum Post Master General

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    Offering the expansion free to all Kickstarters was used to split the player base and thus force others to pay for the expansion if they want to continue playing multiplayer. Do you know how long you sometimes had to wait in the lobby to start a game, now double that with a split player base.

    Uber are cunning.
    maskedcrash likes this.
  16. maskedcrash

    maskedcrash Active Member

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    Alright, I take that one back. Rest is still relevant though.
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  17. maskedcrash

    maskedcrash Active Member

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    Look, I get the whole free update thing VS. DLC expansion, but some of the stuff that's titans only (IN MY PERSONAL OPINION BECAUSE THIS A SUBJECTIVE MEASUREMENT) such as a proper tutorial, balancing (yes they confirmed that the balancing and differentiation that the base game craves so desperately is not in fact, in vanilla) should be in the base game. If I'm going to take a gamble on steam's EA, then I expect a payout if the company is successful.

    That being said, this petition is stupid.
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  18. starsauron

    starsauron Member

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    1 For most people it's not about this 13 Euros. I mean if Kick starters had to pay the same, it would be OK.
    Its just unfair this way Über did this.

    2 PA is still not finished. Über sell here again the same game. With no real improvements.
    Its like sell Call of Duty Dogs for 60 Dollars with 8 new Rifles and say we make a total new game.

    3 Über do ignore their community.

    After all the disappointment in this company, next Projects wont get this kind of great support like before.
    Über actually did not even get to understand the Problem or don't care.

    4
    It was here more like we are the Dudes from cavedog who did Total Annihilation, help us make this in 3D.

    We got actually a "disappointing game" and a lot of "DLCs" with stuff that belongs for free.


    At this point of disappointments here, I am sure no future projects of Über will get this massive support again early access and kick starter does already no more support them, like by Human Resources.

    If Über had released this fair for all fans.
    And told OK help us with next Project, Human Resources early access why not ?

    With this kind of management and responds Über did lost dignity and trust of Early Access steam People.
  19. crizmess

    crizmess Well-Known Member

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    Help me out with this:
    Are you upset, because you feel the vanilla PA is still unfinished, or is it because someone else did get it cheaper than you? All your point revolve around those two things, but I can't see which one is your reason number one.
  20. enderdude

    enderdude Member

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    1. The kickstarters are the reason this game exists, not us, without the backers this game wouldn't exist.

    2. The game has everything it did in the concept trailer, and a few bugs that they fixed with Titans.

    3. The Uber Devs are among the most ACTIVE devs ive seen on any forum, They took what the community wanted and made Titans with it: Experimentals, an improved orbital, and more Annihilation options.

    4. Steam is not the reason that PA was developed, the fact that its been on sale 60% of the time that it was in the steam store, and steam people still want Titans to be free for them is just rediculous, the people that bought the game from the kickstarter or pre-ordered the game through the Uber store didnt get a discount, but you steam users do, so why do you think you're entitled to that, AND a free game?
    and for the disappointment comment, oh well, we all have our seperate opinions.
    cdrkf, Ksgrip and squishypon3 like this.

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