A couple of additions to the game that i need so much.

Discussion in 'PA: TITANS: General Discussion' started by netpyxa, August 28, 2018.

  1. netpyxa

    netpyxa Active Member

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    1) Add the scouts in general combat unit selection. Both air and ground groups benefit greatly with scouts in their formations. You can detach scouts at any time easily using the unit type selector on the edge of your screen anyway.

    2)Combat fabber micro needs to be improved. The problem with the default combat fabbers is that you select them alongside combat units. Often times you want to leave the combat fabbers behind and doing their own buisness ie reclaiming wreckage and setting mines. As soon as you drag-select a combat group and issue a move order they stop reclaiming and setting mines. This is annoying hence the widely used mod has been added to somewhat fix it. BUT this mod removes said fabbers entirely from combat selections. And you sometimes dont want that if you want to use fabbers for combat repairs or frontline teleporter construction. So the mod that we have is not ideal either.

    A fix is needed: combat fabbers are selectable as combat units for as long as they are not issued reclaim or minefield orders. As soon as they are issued such orders, they leave combat unit selection and they mind their own buisness while you can select land blobs without threatening any of combat fabber duties.

    3)I cant help but praise the way that Zero-K developers handled transport micro. And i would VERY MUCH welcome this possibility in PA:T.
    How it works in zero-K: You issue any order for your units. It can be movement, it can be construction, reclaim or anything else. Then you press ONE BUTTON which flags these units eligible to be transported to their destination. After that any accessible transports will continiously and automatically work to move these units until all of them have been moved to their destination prioritizing slow, heavy and expensive units. This is incredible, guys. This opens so much more possibilities for air drops and will allow pelicans be x10 more usable when compared to how they are right now. Please add this to the game. We dont even need heavy transports when enough pelicans will do any job like that.

    Pelicans are very capable in theory but their micro really hinders their ability and lags behind general PA:T automation level and that one of Zero-K, too. They are only used once in a game to transport a single engineer or do a cheeky flamer drop.

    Also pelicans should NOT be selected alongside combat units obviously. So thats another change.
    Last edited: August 28, 2018
    tatsujb, ledarsi, exterminans and 2 others like this.
  2. manlebtnureinmal

    manlebtnureinmal Active Member

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    This is also what I believe is ideal. Combat fabbers are definitely unique in the context that one sometimes wants them treated as utility units and that one sometimes wants them treated as combat units.

    Other units, like scouts, of course, also have this issue, but a scout leaving its position is not as critical as a combat fabber abandoning its 90%-complete Teleporter.

    This actually reminds me that Protoss Observers were given the ability to turn into stationary units in Starcraft 2: LotV. It would be nice to have the ability to be able to toggle a new command to tell a skitter or a firefly not to obey future move commands unless it's the only unit selected.

    Alternately, an even better option would be to have a toggle command to tell a unit not to fall under army-wide selects (mass drag selects, all air key, etc) would be useful too, in addition to context-based combat fabber selection.
    tatsujb, Quitch and grandhomie like this.
  3. lulamae

    lulamae Well-Known Member

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    While not the perfect fix you seek, if you are using the combat fabricator deselect mod, holding the shift key allows you to select the combat fabber with the combat units
  4. ledarsi

    ledarsi Post Master General

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    1) In a tactical game the choice to make and position a single unarmed scout unit is of importance, but at the strategic level recon forces should typically (with exceptions) have actual weapons. Mixing an unarmed scout into a group of fighters is just a chore when that scout might as well be armed or have some second function, perhaps operating in groups as recon elements. For example, Skitters could have a weak weapon on a very fast chassis, making it reasonable to make groups of them and making them potentially usable as a light raider.

    The ability to transform a scout unit into a stationary permanent observation post is actually a very good idea for a unit mechanic. This could even increase its HP or make it stealthy, but perhaps the tradeoff would be that it would not be reversible.

    3) Single-unit transports will require substantial automation in order to make using groups of them livable. Making independent transports larger sort of helps but not really.

    The best way to handle transports at large scales is most likely to have parent transports and child transports. For example, a big transport ship would be the "parent" and would operate a large group of transport lifter drones which lift up individual units to load into the transport ship. This would let you automatically load/unload a large group of units at a time. Instead of transporting 100 units with 100 Pelicans all given load and then unload orders, you order 100 units into the ship and then order the ship to unload somewhere else, and it starts giving orders to all its lifters to make it so.

    These could have pretty long range for their lifter transports. If the ship is trying to ferry outside units to a destination within range, then the drone lifter would carry directly to the destination without going to the ship first. This would just be a quick check as to whether the travel time from the pickup to the dropoff point is less than the distance to the ship.

    Same principle for a spaceship land unit transport, only instead of a surface unit or structure, it is an orbital unit with flying "dropship" transports.

    Definitely agreed on transports not being box-selected with combat units, just as other non-combat units should not be. I would further add that fire support units such as artillery would be included in the non-combat category, except that as presently designed they kind of are combat units and not a strategic weapon that should never accompany front line units.
    tatsujb likes this.
  5. netpyxa

    netpyxa Active Member

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    The mod is a must have right now. I dont blame you and im using it myself.
  6. MrTBSC

    MrTBSC Post Master General

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    the easiest solution would be to have two units .. have the actual combatmedic that focuses on keeping your units alive being with them, then additionaly have the combatengineer/combatfabricator to fortify possitions and who is not part of your army ..
    emarkus likes this.
  7. NikolaMX

    NikolaMX Active Member

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    Hmm almost like a move command to "Hold position" that currently exists? :))

    The improvements you talk about regarding scouts in combat groups depend on playstyle, which is why mods exist. Scouts are already in the box selection, so just learn to use that instead of "all land units on screen", it will help you get better in general anyway

    As for all that combat fabber complaining, you have hotkeys and army grouping. You dont need to split units or do some complicated mechanics alterations, you just need to git gud and use what you already have in the game.

    I do agree with the pelican complain tho. Transports in PA are poorly utilized, since you have teleprompters. The astreus is slow and can only move one unit, so might as well use teleporters in most cases. The pelican is fragile and expensive, meaning that its too big of a risk to go for it.

    The solutions that exist right now are the "Exodus" unit that is in the game files and can transport up to 12 units, but needs to load them one at a time, and personally i'd prefer that a lot more than i like the current astreus.

    As for pelicans, a good mechanics start would be to allow queuing Pick up commands, since right now if you shift queue more than one, all but the last are overwritten. This means i need to manually order them to do every single course, rendering long-term transportation completely nonviable.

    Additional improvements that can make them a tad bit better would be price reduction, radar stealth, (like the ones Krakens have) or durability buff
  8. netpyxa

    netpyxa Active Member

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    Another thing.

    4) We could actually use a button which removes units from combat selection and even from ALL selection. Two buttons in controls. You select a group of units and press one of these buttons. After that they leave combat selection or even ALL selection (can only be selected individually by clicking directly).
  9. emarkus

    emarkus Active Member

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    a mod with two versions of the same unit, but both with different configuration. like that.
    romeoruiz15 likes this.

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