5.1 AUDIO

Uhm... :lol: any arguments needed?

well alright then. 5.1 in games has been around for awhile now and as Jon Mavor pointed out in his last live stream F-mod (was it?) will automatically give 3D position to audio so most of what we want is work already chopped up.

I believe what I really want and what does require work is recording the music in 5.1 because hell common, we're paying for a full orchestral score, why go halfway? and the sound effects should also be recorded in 5.1. or maybe that isn't necessary as when F-mod will position a sound as behind us or to the left for example it will position this sound accordingly on our 5.1 system.

I dunno.

Any and all input you have on 5.1 audio put it below. I'm weary they'll end up recording the orchestra in 2.1 which is really a damn shame so maybe some support for the idea on the forums would be nice. And if they end up releasing PA with no 5.1 configuration possible at all in this day and age that would really really be a sad event.

I am unfamiliar with audio stuff. Explain 5.1

I assume they record the sound from multiple directions to simulate sounds like stuff coming from certain directions?

There are separate techniques.

5.1 surround sound means a speaker setup consisting of 1 center speaker, 2 front side speakers, 2 back side speakers and 1 subwoofer dedicated to bass.

HRTF is like 3D for your ears. I think HRTF is more impressive than 5.1/7.1 surround sound because it recreates more significant psycho-acoustic characteristics. However, HRTF is only effective at the sweet spot between 2 speakers or headphones.

HRTF demo, use headphones:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUDTlvagjJA

For 5.1/7.1: Record in as many channels as possible, then downmix to target number of channels.

For binaural/HRTF intended for headphones: use an HRTF setup in the studio. Alternatively use fmod's HRTF mixer on the multi-channel recordings which simulates the HRTF setup.

There's no point in going 5.1 specifically for the orchestral score since a conventional orchestra setup plays infront of you (obviously there are compositions with setups that include positioning behind the audience). Also, since we play strategy games viewing down I don't see how sound coming from behind us makes any particular sense. Imho.

In this situation surround sound would indeed not make that much of a difference compared to stereo.

But binaural/HRTF would.

Carla Polce Trio: The Moon is a Harsh Mistress [Binaural]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRfvELSLg5k



Pegasus Quartet in "6D" [Bi-Binaural "If four eyes see better than two, how do four ears fare?"]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icI1FIquZBk

HRTF is pretty impressive. Great for people like me who use headsets on their PC because they use voice chat in games all the time.

What? That's probably the best place to use 5.1! Your typical orchestra is composed of multiple music sections, each of which can be doing its own thing. It's the ideal setup for surround sound. Compared to the cost of hiring the orchestra in the first place, setting up a bit more recording equipment is not that big a deal. Could probably even record 2.1 and 5.1 at the same time.

I agree, I use my headset quite a bit, since voice chat is quite superior to text chat. Not to mention more fun with friends. That HRTF video was really cool, and if Uber could throw that in that would be amazing. Like an option to switch between 2.1, 5.1, and HRTF. I'd be such a happy camper.

I already posted my extensive thoughts on this, but some fool had the foresight to make it a backers-only thread.
Suffice it to say, if you ask even the most elitist, pretentious audiophile, you'll find that they'll all agree that stereo audio is the best way to listen to music, no matter what genre.
[EDIT] Here you go:

How is being the composer not a desirable listening position?

This is what I am wondering as well.

You mean the conductor? The conductor stands in the front, not the middle. What they hear is still stereo sound, but with a greater width, making it easier to discern the parts of the audio. (And this can be achieved with 2 speakers easily enough, but it's not always the best option for listening.)

HRTF isn't something that we're likely to ship with the game, though a number of sound cards, "surround" headphones, and stand alone software packages handle this automatically from 5.1 or 7.1 surround inputs. It's a very interesting technology.

Most of the "virtual 3d" demos out there are showing off binaural recordings, which are recorded with what looks like a mannequin head with the microphones inside realitistic looking ears.

Those are the things you can see in the Quartetto Pegaso video.

Basically humans actually hear sound through more than just the sound at their ears. Sound that comes through the head and how it reflects off of the ear lobes as it comes from different directions effects how we perceive sound direction.

HRTF (Head-Related Transfer Function) try to replicate those effects to varying levels of quality. The most common version is known as Dolby Headphone, but if your head and years differ too much from the modeled standard you won't notice a significant difference between standard stereo and something using Dolby Headphone, or even the binaural recorders. There are a few that allow you to tweak the settings to try to match your particular head shape to increase the effectiveness.


The music will be mixed with standard recording gear, though the in game sounds should work properly in stereo, 5.1, or whatever your hardware is capable of. Howard does a lot of mixing in 5.1 by default anyways.

Duuuuuuude that vid works even better with my sound system encoding it into 5.1 ! XD

EDIT: awmygoood what a good find! I can't stop trying this video out!

YEEESSS thank you Howard!

the big deal here is that configuring a game to output 5.1 audio to your 5.1 device isn't easy and requires the option to be there in the first place. So I hope the developers pack that in.

There's actually an interesting project going on right now that's exactly that.

David Bowie’s classic, “Sound and Vision” reimagined by 160+ musicians and captured with 360-degree cameras and 360-degree binaural microphones.

http://www.hello-again.com

I'm sorry but you're wrong on many accounts, first of yes Forged Alliance plays viewing down (and that's if you're not counting control-V but hey, it stops at horizontal) but most definitely not this game, this game is in 3D , with a 3d camera, that can move around space. And if a planet (yes, I know it shouldn't but for the fun of it) or an asteroid moving makes a sound then it sure as heck should be producing that sound when passing behind your "head", the camera.

What epicness, you then know it's there, turn around and see it. Not to mention the numerous spaceships that we'll probably be using.

as for the orchestra yo have misunderstood me, 3D recording does not require to place mics all around the noisy ^^ object, but you can have all your mics in front with a decent space between each, Or you can situate certain mics towards the back for those instruments the are more grave (this will make them come our the rear speakers as for the base it is not localisable, hence the subwoofer that can be placed anywhere in the room).

Lastly some orchestras are organized in a circle and the best spot to be situated is the maestro in the center. In this case place the 5.1/7.1 mics in the center each facing each direction and you would really feel like you're in the middle of the action.

.....okayy and i just read movra's post and this makes my point even more firm and assured

She's singing into my ears!! i'm trying it out with both encoded 5.1 and my sennheiser 2.1 headphones (yes they have good bass)

"I implore you to reconsider!"
play some Forged Alliance which has the bare minimum for positional audio and you'll find that the audio is everything but distracting and makes absolute scene but that example really is piss poor. How about some total war shogun2 fall of the samurai, where cannon ball as they fizz past your ear sound OH ever so different if you're listening to them from below, in front, or when it is past you, from above, or right at the cannon's brim. It makes it so true to life.

No really this is an experience that cannot be given the slip.

It's crazy. Even though I know I'm sitting behind a computer watching a Youtube video, I've caught myself looking away from the screen to find that double bass in my room.

Here's another clip you might like. Some people claim to experience ASMR listening to it: 3D Audio Binaural Relaxing Woman Whispering, Matches. I think the ticklish feeling is actually a byproduct of the psycho-acoustics. Someone appears to be nearby according to your ears. In reaction your confused brains interpolate part of the physical feeling of wind brushing your skin.