Assassin lunge discussion

no its cool because he can only do it once every 15 seconds, and if he misses hes dead..

so its all good.

Edit.. i mean to say if he misses he smoke bombs and runs away..

I just played as a Sniper in Ammo Mule.I upgraded my traps second.I put 3 of them in a ******* row in one of the "bridges" there.And then there's this assasin who comes for me ALL THE TIME.He lunges through my traps and facegrapples me.I died almost every time.With silver armor.Seriously,what the ****? I couldn't counter him,i could see him right there rushing for me and i just couldnt do anything.His lunge ignored my traps,his grapple spam somehow always won mine,and he just instagibbed me or left me with a slvier of health,with no chance of counter grapple (Which only resulted in a clean escape for him anyway).

You can't have a class so freaking TANKY (Gold armor...omg) that deals SO MUCH DAMAGE,has SO MUCH MOBILITY,Escape mechanisms,invisibility,utility (Quick juice gain,turret stuns,super pushing ability) ....so broken tbh.

Don't put them all next to each other, put them space out so she can't lunge over them all. :|

Assassins don't need to be nerfed, dumb players need to be buffed.

actually lunge is really nice and i'd hate to see it go

ROFL

Jump. Assassin won't be able to grapple and will be frozen in place where the lunge ends. Proceed to SMG/grapple/flak. Problem solved.

Well, that was easy wasn't it?

plenty of times lately I've been grabbed right after jumping

Jumping is bad advice. You can be grappled while in the air. Jumping also makes you more predictable.

You have to time your jumps inbetween the assassin's grapple attempts. And it's not bad advice.
Jumping is actually the solution to 90% of all things that can get you killed in this game, and especially assassins.

Also, to all the snipers who complain about getting killed by assassins. Seriously, what do you expect, being able to outmatch an assassin in melee? You are a SNIPER, you are not supposed to beat everything at any range with no effort at all like so many people seem to believe. You have your traps to keep assassins away and your grapple which can ring out bad assassins, also, the assassin is your counter-class, you are supposed to be afraid of them.

what about making failed grapples have a half full duration of cooldown

so like 7 seconds?

for all classes? most classes dont miss like the bad assassins do.. chasing while spamming grapple

it wouldnt nerf good ones, but would punish bad ones

Would make grapples rarely worth it, you do take reduced damage during a grapple animation, but you are also extremely exposed and unable to dodge things like air strikes or concentrated fire.


At MOST the cooldown for a grapple attempt should not be more than 2.5-3seconds for a missed attempt, even that is pushing it.

Keep in mind, when you attempt to grapple and miss, you can't shoot or attack for the entire time you are attempting the grapple.

I think that the damage reduction during a grapple animation should be lowered (not removed, just lowered.) and if another pro comes up and tries to grapple the person grappling you they can pull the enemy off of you and save you.

Jumping is the best thing you could do against an grapple spamming Assassin. By jumping you will avoid the grapple and you will buy yourself time, and that's something Assassin don't have a lot of. I'm pretty sure lag has a lot to do with the situations of getting grappled on mid-air.

If your teammates are good they will also know that there is an Assassin near as soon as they see you jumping and looking around like a maniac.

And adding a cooldown to failed grapple would only punish classes that rely on grappling from survival; I.E, Only the Assassin. Really, if an Assassin lives long enough to spam the grapple button 4 times while running around you in circles and you don't escape, kill her or make her run away, then she deserves the kill more than you do.

I did space em out,he would just land in between them...its not like they are hard to see,even in mid air after a smoke bomb.

He somehow grappled me in the air (I guess I was still too low on my jump) or waited for me to land to do it.Grapple was just a free escape for him,i can't always be looking at the outside of the ring.Flak while Assasin is hugging you,spamming lunges,slashes,and grapples? They also damage you,and it's not like he was standing still right there.SMG then grapple sounds nice,too bad he is super tanky with gold armor and he can easily escape the battle with his 2 seconds cd lunge...which makes you jump ridiculous amounts of distance if you drop from a ledge.

I know all this theory guys,It just wasn't working...I guess he was really good or i was extremely sleepy,it was the first time i had been owned like that by a sin.

yeah but than lunge grapple followed by jump lunge smoke bomb wouldnt mean its impossible to kill the sin without a gunner

The same thought has crossed my mind. It would be rather neat if you could save team mates being grappled by grappling the enemy. In that case, the enemy's grapple would be cancelled, but he wouldn't be damaged and be thrown away for a little bit (so that the original grapple victim can't immidately counter with his own grapple). This should work on every grapple, not just the assassin's.

I don't know if it would fix any problems, but I just think it's rather silly you have to stand around and watch while your teammate is being stabbed. Well, you can shoot, but you can't do anything to stop the grappler and with the damage resistance it's usually not possible to kill him.

worse grappling is often a great way to SURVIVE a 2v1 for the sin, that plus the reduction of dmg during smokebomb, and its really hard to kill him unless he stands there taking it, or over extends. This and the fact that a facestab allows him to slash his sword at you after killing most class's even with silver armor and well..

No you can not.

You can, however, lag (or the enemy can lag, or the server, either ways), at which point, anything can happen. I've been killed by shots that didn't touch me after I cleared a wall. Lag does weird things.

You can not be grappled while jumping.

I'm gonna bet on that last paragraph. Either he was REALLY good, and just outplayed you, or you were just very sleepy, and... He still outplayed you.

That said, you have exactly the same default health as an assassin. You can use gold armor too (though I honestly only recommend silver). Gold RoF and silver Armor are generally enough to deal with assassins. Gold RoF turns your SMG into a killer. Silver armor means you can survive the newby lucky face grapple spam (or when those lucky grapples when they get stuck in the ice, without lunging, but the game decides their arms have 12 ft), allowing you to counter with your own grapple (which is generally a ring out, or at least high damage).

That said, assassins and assaults have the upper hand against you, like you have the upper hand against Tanks and Gunners.

Don't see any way to survive a 2vs1 as assassin just due to the grapple. For the grapple to kill anyone it most likely has to be from the back or the other player has to be hit before. Even then the second player will take you out, unless he does some mistakes. Why doesn't he just grapple the assassin right after her own grapple? Or just shoot her? There is damage reduction but there's also no way to get away if the teammate tosses a mine/airstrike/whatever at you so it hits you right after the grapple. Also it isn't THAT hard to take out an assassin during her grapple animation. She got more sturdiness during those seconds but it's still far, far from being immortal. E.g. it's no problem to cut another assassin down during her grapple animation using her sword. With gold armor she might have very low health left but you could still just try to grapple her right after the animation ends.

Also if you allow an assassin to grapple you while you're with a teammate one of you most likely didn't pay enough attention.

Vleessjuu:
The grapple damage IS canceled/prevented if you kill the grappler during the animation, sometimes a knockback/knockdown seems to work as well.

I saw a few times a grapple animation in the air, and I mean like 1m above the ground while not being the person grappled myself, probably a rare bug (because apparently everyone else on the server also see it in the air). But ya you can also get grappled while you're in the air on your screen due to latency.

Anyway, it was predictable that a thread about an assassin ability would turn into a thread about grapples... But still it's not the subject, and I'm surprised almost nobody mentionned the fact the lunge cooldown is so ridiculously low that you have it ready again after a lunge + grapple animation, making the damage sequence 2 lunges and a grapple. Guess that's why not so many figured they can get a back grapple from the front, they just don't need it once they found lunge.

About jumping, some assassins expect you to jump and won't spam grapple straight away, but rather wait for you to land, but sure lots are just spamming it hoping for the best and making that awesomely fitting missed grapple sound.

I know, it just doesn't happen very often unless the grappler is already at low hp. I just thought it might be a nice idea to promote teamwork, but it's not really needed or anything.

I'm not really on board with this - I find that a lot of the time, even if an assassin does grapple me with lunge, as I'm usually near my team, I can sometimes be spared, but the Assassin usually dies.

Another issue is that as players get better at seeing through Assassin smoke bombs and cloak, Lunge->Grapple will be the only remotely reliable way for an Assassin to kill a good player.

I wouldn't be opposed to the Assassin's front grapple damage being nerfed, so that the combo of Lunge->Front Grapple->SLASH SLASH SLASH is less effective... but again, not sure if it's really necessary.

But right now I think that tying lunge to grapple would be a mistake.
Tying it to Dash I don't think that it would affect the issue at hand.