Assassin lunge discussion

A good assassin will wait for you to reload or otherwise be unable to grapple them out of their lunge. (e.g. having the wrong weapon out as a tank).

It can't be fixed - backstabbing people in the face is caused by lunging past them from the front, turning 180 and grappling all in one motion, so it's basically fair game.

Seriously though, lunge is overpowered because it allows the assassin to kill people instantly? Are you serious? Any class can do that.
Assaults can ring out people with Charge 3, it's cooldown is ridiculously short.
Gunners have a Grapple that instagibs assassins and snipers on level 3.
Snipers can headshot everything from across the map.
Supports have airstrikes that completely destroy everything in a pretty large area.
Don't even get me started on the tank's charge + death blossom combo.

I can understand that people feel cheaped out when an assassin lunges from around the corner and backstabs them. But that's the point of the assassin's PK strategy - quickly killing players who are unaware of the assassin's presence.
Also, the assassin's lunge produces a pretty loud slashing sound when used - just jump upon hearing it. At least that's what I do to counter other sins, works every time.

I refuse to believe that you are serious. o

Come on...from the start of the lunge to the connection, that would give you like less than a second to respond to it which is HIGHLY HIGHLY unlikely, especially if you are attackin someone/bots. It seems impossible imo.
Giving lunge and grapply a shared cooldown would be much easier.

over all the assassin is op even before paying for upgrades. simple solution? make the assassin a two shot kill. very very low health and weak armor, but the ability to dominate if you are smart and know your way around the map. this will eliminate the noobish assassins who can only break even in KDR and leave the dedicated assassin players to master their class. although they are generally easy to take down, with the assistance of gold armor and fast health regen, they are almost impossible to kill with the likes of an assault or sniper (they simply get damaged then run away before theyre killed) the advantage of speed, flash, cloak AND jump is enough. one to two seconds of focused fire should put the assassin down. right clicking takes no skill whatsoever

Well, it sure happens to me a lot (90% of the time give or take) considering how impossible it is, on low ping servers even. No matter how fast you do it, theirs comes first.

And why are people trying to facehug tanks?

Charge the assassin with a medium or heavy class then, assassin won't have a chance unless the tickrate pranks you.

They need to Add cooldown to Grapple after lunge (1.5 second should be more than enough)

I mean that as assassin if you lunge grapple from the front 90% of the time they'll grapple you before you grapple them. If they're good, that is.

I take issue with the (good players will hear the buzz and woosh) defense.

heres why, good players dont stand around waiting for bad assasins to try and lunge grapple them.

We are usually busy doing something else, be it attacking a turret from range, or fighting another pro, or clearing a bot lane.

Now while I get it, 2v1 should always go well for the two, I dont agree that in a 1v1 with an assassin near by, the pro will die instantly to a back grapple. You really CANT hear the buz when you are in a fight, I mean maybe with the right sound settings, or a great pair of headphones, and you always having one ear out for that.. but honestly 40% of the time I don't hear them coming if i'm in a fight or even just firing my nade launcher at a turret and the 60% of the time I do hear them is usually far to late. But hey, perhaps thats a skill celing issue, and not a design issue.

I would like to see a slight delay on grapple from lunge and thats about it, but again, I dont find it game breaking.. I just point that out.. I find the redcued dmg from smoke bomb far worse IMO, I also find that SINs are far less endorcement needy, since their main dmg comes from grapples which dont have an endorcement..

it would be really cool if they scaled grapples down in dmg, and added a grapple endorcement.. Maybe I should suggest that.

Entire point of endorsements is that there's no 'take this for this class always' for anything, though armor needs some work in that respect.

From what I've seen, playing with a pretty darn good assassin on my side, the main source of damage is the sword due to the rigid nature of a grapple (unless no-one is near of course)

I use Audio Technica AD700 and have no problem figuring out the buz sound amidst all the chaos while being half-deaf so I assume it must be some iffy sound settings of yours or you may have not developed the ear for it yet (you'll get that some time)

I'll refrain from commenting on the lungegrapple - I'm no career sin.

Like I said, its possible that not hearing it is a skill celing issue, not a game issue. I may have not DEVELOPED the ear for it. But A lot of times, its just that 1 2v1 with an assasin involved is instant death, and thats annoying.. as the only way to deal with an assassin is to give it full attention and jump around like an idiot (unless you are an assault, than shes neutralized by a hover)

Or shoot the assassin. Some don't have gold health endorsements and go down after 3 seconds of fire from a minigun at long range.

yeah but thats SOME

think about this

1) Assassins dont need endorsements to be good, Armor is almost a MUST HAVE for assassin, as it only benefits them without loosing anything.. They can run gold ROF, silver Armor, Bronze any and be super effective.. Its not like an assault who has to choose rather he wants to run armor over killing power.. they can run armor in silver or gold witout loosing killing power, as the really only usefull killing power upgrade is RoF for them, the rest are just a little help..

2) ANY decent assassin runs atleast silver armor endorsement because of this, and while some may not for now, that will last another month before it becomes common knowledge that armor is a must have.


3) a silver or god forbid gold armored Assassin is NOT squishy, combined with SmokeBomb they are nearly impossible to kill unless you catch them completely un aware, and their smokebomb is on cooldown (and they are not effected by a previous smoke bomb), and they dont have cover to lunge too..

They have a TON of survivability when you combine Silver/Gold armor with lunge, smokebomb and cloak. And none of that takes away from their back grapple damage..

unlike say a gunner, who gives up survivability for Accuracy/clipsize/Reload to become a killing machine..

that is one thing to consider.

It's hard to imagine as a console player, the assassin without the lunge-grapple, but I have seen Mibuwolf's video from last week and I could not believe assassins on PC were capable of curving their lunge's trajectory. Amazing.

Giving the kind of smoothness PC players have (the same as how snipers on console benefit from mouse control on PC), I'm inclined to believe that the assassin warrants some level change. I mean, Scathis mentioned how they nerfed Tank Charge 3 and I had no idea that was a thing for console-to-PC changes.

Still, I guess it's not impossible to imagine. I certainly sometimes just drop my cloak and dash behind my mark for a grapple for fear of getting an inconsistent lunge from latency. I guess assassins wouldn't be hurt too much considering with dash they're still quick enough to catch up to a number of pros, even with speed endorsements.

Well, it's certainly a productive suggestion.

Yeah, I just use lunge on the larger classes or on sins that think their cloak is silent.
But I hate it when I am up against a competent sin and we both lunge and they some how get a back grapple on me. Even if you miss the lunge 1 quick swipe of the mouse and your already hugging the guys back.

Lunge grapple is a valid killing technique for sin, i get alot more kills when i play gunner or assault, sin grapple is on cooldown and is situational, more of an opportunity kill.

Fits the class perfectly, able to get the odd kill but is certainly not the soldier of the team with high kill/death ratios like the gun classes. The ranking table will confirm which classes get the most kills, i assume its the assault, followed by the gunner and sniper, im guessing sin is the most killed class?


Also all classes benefit from superior pc controls over console controls, apart from the support who does not need to aim, so that argument is mute.

If you see a sin lunge from the front and cant jump react to it then you deserve to be grappled, game should not be fixed for bad players.

Did you really just imply the assault doesnt need to aim? That is rediculous, Assault rifle, nade launcer? I think you meant BAD ASSAULTS.. and bad assaults are hardly a threat to decent players.. Oh no here he comes.. get ready to move away from bomb before it lands.. There is a difference between an assault that runs Skill Recharge 3 and spams lunge/bombs.. and an assault that runs ROF 3, Armor 2, Reload 1 like my self, and uses all weapons at his disposal.. The difference is, the first one is annoying and the 2nd can fight you off and go on to take out your turrets, bots and money ball.

back to topic.. Back grapples from lunge, and even face grapples from lunge are annoying and see a bit OP.. I personally never tried it until this post, because I assumed it wouldnt work.. (the melee attack at end of lunge made me believe there would be a cooldown already) Now that i'm trying it, its way too powerful IMO, especially with a mouse, where I can easily FLICK my wrist and get a 180 back grapple ( I dont even try to hit them I aim for just the the right of them (left flick feels more comfortable to me) and god forbid if I were to set up a macro on my mouse 4 that did 180 turn plus right click..

1) add a cooldown between lunge and grapple (1 second suggested),

You can tell by the sword swipe at the end, that uber did not intend this to be comboed into grapples, let a lone back grapples.. its a melee attack. I think if they intended it, they would have come out and said it already personally..

But maybe the same could be said for the opposite argument.. I think we need a dev to just come out and say. Yes thats intended, or woops we missed that one. Before we can say how to properly address the current abuse of back grappling from lunge.

and to imply that an assassin has nothing to do if he cant lunge grapple is rediculous, and just another example of a bad player using a OP mechanic to do well with a class, and assuming its skill. I was able to do VERY well with SIN long before I even knew this was possible..

Exactly. An Assassin without at least silver armour is completely laughable. No player worth their salt is going to not run armour on Assassin.

I don't really bother to upgrade dash anymore. Lunge works much better without any investment. Maybe, as others have said, integrate lunge with dash skill.