My thoughts on bots

Edited:

This thread is no longer relevant due to this:

https://forums.uberent.com/threads/changed-my-mind-doxes-are-wonderful-not-useless.62525/

Can you provide the loby ID of that game? I think we need a vid of this one...

belongs to the balanceforum ...

Will do when I get back home.

I think someone should try to replicate this using 5 Vanguards vs 5000 Doxes. The 2 Vanguards vs 700 Doxes was due to the Vanguards being at a chokepoint which caused all Doxes to squeeze through it, thus enabling the Vanguard uber to maximize collateral damage.

I don't think dox need to be faster, I do think vehicles are too fast though.
Also, *cough-evade-engagement-mode-cough*.

You sure you aren't exaggerating just a tiny bit? I don't think 2 vanguards can fire fast enough to take out a 700 dox army. Even if they are cannon fodder, a 700 blob of doxs is pretty big.

but it's not strong.

Again, I'll drop this: The Community UberBalance mod shows exactly how dox can be fixed so they are viable as both an early and late game raiding unit.

I typically lost about 150 Dox before killing the vanguards. That still around 2:1 metal ratio in favor of the Vanguards (without micro), but it's a far cry from 700

im not sure dox have the range for 700

They don't. Instead they will push each other straight into the death zone. Having so many units even causes them to STACK right in Vanguards weapon range, killing even more with each single shot.

Any update on getting that match ID?

Whilst i agree, Dox is underpowered, you literally placed them into their "Worst case scenario"

- low range + high numbers is never a good army, low range units excel in small numbers, where they can use their speed / tankiness for maximum effectiveness (in Dox's case, speed)
- Since their melee trait is speed, they are not good at head-on fights
- Bots have a higher Density and are far more vulnerable to AOE than any other unit type. The vanguards were likely taking out 20+ per shot
- Vanguards cost over 30x a dox each, whilst the difference in cost is still around 10x, do remember i am listing a ton of other factors. Dox's take a long time to build, just because of a long-standing issue of low cost units suffering a lot from large rollout time.
- Dox's range may be superior, but when vanguard's aoe is taken into account, there isnt much of a difference, many Doxes would be blown up without firing.
- 2 vanguards can cover each other's downtime, giving very little opportunity for dox's to deal damage during the weapon's recharge.
-I wouldn't consider Doxes a front-on combat unit, rather, use their speed and extremely low cost to take out undefended metal extractors. (infernos do a better job of this a lot of the time, hence why i think Dox's are underpowered, just not monsterously so)

Mered, don't. We already have 1 forum-goer shoving his agenda down our throats, we don't need two.

Which two are you talking about, because I lost count at ten. Present company included.

You must admit, the dox can keep their role and still be balanced though, very much just through inflated numbers like cost and health and damage and such. This mod proves that.

Everyone wants to back seat dev, but that is where the fun is that when you play a game and bother over a problem in the game.

Trying to find it. I played several games after that and mixed up the exact serial. It's taking forever to load each one just to see which one it is.

If all else fails, I'm going to go test an all-out Dox wars vs an enemy and get that ID instead.

This ship is big enough for ten of us!

Which is why I decided to just take action. I realized a while ago that I can talk all I want about what I've learned playing the game, but if I don't put it into practice it's worthless.

That's perfectly fine. Taking action when we've been stonewalled is great (and it's great that we have the ability to take action after so long of having to put up with what some of us consider terribad)...

But evangelising just seems tacky... y'know?

I couldn't find the original one, but I just tested a 1800 Dox invasion of just a very small base with about 20 infernos. All the Doxes died.

How can I retrieve the ID by the way? I have the video.

Edit: Trying to find the darn video here. Testinginator VS +1 AI.

Anyway, I just had 1800 Doxes stomp a terribly guarded AI base with only 15 infernos, 5 aventails, and 6-8 bombers. The Doxes took out only 2 buildings - the barracks and the metal extractor when they stomped all at once.

I think I know why I cannot find both videos.

Both were me vs AI, and not vs humans. I couldn't find the video everywhere I looked under PAstats as of 31st July.