Ladders in 1.0

the same than a donation(kickstarter)-based game for a small niche-subcommunity of a unofficial game sequel has.

So, except that they are the same thing, they have probably nothing in common, sigh.

I wonder if matchmaking is really the think needed here? The main thing people want is balanced games.

Spring achieves this by allowing an auto balance feature that can be activated from within a lobby once hosted (this is mainly for team games). I can see a 'matchmaking ladder' being problematic for small games due to limited pool of players you can end up waiting for ages. With the 'balance in lobby' option, it simply distributes the available players as evenly as possible. No issue of preventing players joining, or splitting up the community, just a simple system that teams new players with experienced so everyone gets a chance.

For the latter, you would need to maintain some basic player stats, and include a simple bit of code to distribute them. It is one of the best things about spring- you often get very balanced large team games (which can go on for hours as a result, finishing with epic clashes of hordes of units, bombers, nukes and such).

That is what a matchmaker allows.
You are describing a manual matchmaker. Something FAF has too.

Once the rating system is in place and works, it's quite trivial to make it automatic or not.

Zep did answer this though.

he said one fith of recorded games including AI-stop, solo, and co-op (the stats on game-type you said were the crushing majority) were ladder on FAF, an obvious contradiction.

https://forums.uberent.com/threads/ladders-in-1-0.62168/page-12#post-966064

Yeah, the I think that it's important to make the distinction though. When people think matchmaking, they automatically think blizzard style- as in click button and you'll end up in a game with suitable people. We just don't have the numbers for that imo, so the system will need a manual component.

Remember that FAF was probably heavily influenced by the way Spring has been doing things in this regard- and it's an ideal method to get good games with a small player base.

You can play ladder solo? What do you do, nuke the trees?

And to be honest, I never saw a single number about PA. So I don't really know how Uber jumps to the conclusion that a ladder is not viable.
They probably don't see a lot of 1v1, but I have an obvious reason for that...

Here is another fact : Most people don't play MP anymore, waiting for the game to be released/having some MP challenge. That's what I do and what all FAF backers does. And all the people who backed and that I know does.

If you had a ladder right now, that MP number would be higher without lowering the "solo" players, I can bet anything on that.

FAF track all games. If you are playing with a bot alone, or if you are playing the campaign (solo) with a friend in coop.
That's actually a big % of custom games.

For the total amount of custom games (these solo experiences + "normal" skirmishes), you have 1/5th of that number for 1v1 game played through the matchmaker.

I don't think you quite understand how this works. do you need a graphic? or to put on your monocle?

the sentence is Oxford english, what can I say?

total games
composed of:

• ladder games
• solo/vs AI games
• team vs AI games (E.G. "ai stomp")
  
• multiplayer/custom games (still ranked)
  
• modded/unranked games (these include survival, zone control, murder party, phantom, thermo.... the list is unending)
  
• co-op campaign games
• galactic war games

ladder games/total games = 1/5

aye-aye cptn'?

I think that ladder and matchmaking system aren't that urgent because we already have PA Stats. It can come later in some competitive update. I think that integrating the mod manager into the game itself is of higher priority because there may be people that don't read the forum and aren't aware of the PAMM thus can't get access to PA Stats which is currently definitely sufficient, it is all about letting the people know about it.
Just by the way, could you please take a look at this bug? It is preventing me from using any kinds of mods (unfortunately including PA Stats) unless I play PA as another User in my PC and relogging can be quite tedious.

Sadly most people won't bother with mods (even more if there is no integrated mod vault), so I fear PA Stats won't be viable, and this time for good reasons.

I has to be integrated into the game. I can't even believe I'm arguing for implementing a ladder in a RTS game...

Well to be fair they're not saying there WON'T be a ladder, they're saying not... yet.

Yeah I understand, I just meant that it doesn't have to be now, because we already have PA Stats. They could however make more people know about PA Stats so that people who don't know about it yet but would like some kind of a ladder can use it too.

this IS kinda crazy.

yeah but the thing is no ladder at 1.0 will likely kill PA.

Normally I'm extremely skeptical with your posts as they are mostly hidden advertisements for FA. Nevertheless thanks for your input with the positive side of having a matchmaker. As I mentioned before I had to give up trying to argue why this was essential pre release as I tought it was pretty obvious.

Stop taking over @Geers' job!

I sincerely doubt it will KILL it.

I swear, is the entire competitive multiplayer community apocalyptic eschatologists now?

dude, honestly?

Viability of the ladder is only one issue among many. Again, I've explained in pretty good detail our thought process. You are concentrating on one not very big part of the argument.

Also let me remind you that we aren't talking about not doing any competitive features but about how they get prioritized in our release schedule.

I'm really getting tired of the sky is falling rhetoric.