PSA - What You See Is What You Get (WYSIWYG)

The upgrade to any single problem is to get a new unit in the roster. Unfortunately, many new units suffer from making the previous ones obsolete...

There are times we need a combat role to improve over the course of a game. Many games use upgrades for this, and those aren't terrible, but we would need the means to clearly identify this was done. ie: updating the unit icon, etc.

Adding a new late game unit to perform the same role "better" is also completely valid, but as you pointed out it makes the old unit obsolete. The question is, "which approach more closely follows the design intent of the game?"

Uber seams to be comfortable with T2 replacing T1, so that's a pretty clear cut case and we don't need to ever worry about upgrades for anything vanilla. For the mod community though we may not all share in that philosophy. I would rather each unit remain a viable tool at every stage of the game, even if that means we need an upgrade system. I do still value WYSIWYG, so I would like a system changing a unit's icon (and model) after an upgrade has been granted.

There is another way to make a combat role stronger over the course of a game: synergy. For instance, let's assume Uber wanted to make the inferno's role as a tough, close-ranged attacker stronger in the late-game. They could add a T2 long-ranged repair unit to keep it alive longer, a unit that gives a speed boost to all friendly units in its AoE, or a durable transport to deliver it rapidly into the fight. None of these options require upgrades or making any units obsolete.

This is where things get tricky because it's never quite that cut and dry, yeah maybe the Repair Fabber and Inferno work well together, but are there any edge cases where the repair fabber breaks another part of the balance? Does it mess with the way Commanders can be used for example? Maybe.

I don't like "direct" synergy because of the domino effect it can have, especially in PA as it doesn't have the "Hard Coded" relationships you get out of games like Starcraft2.

Mike

Oh wow, the healer and tank combo. Can't say I've heard of that one before, never mind the fact that it works on everything and not just assault bots.

A slightly move direct (and potentially game breaking) synergy is the one we're still waiting to see. The unit cannon + heavy assault bot is a naturally lethal combo that fixes the assault bot's slow speed with the rapid deployment of the cannon. It is not as directly useful for other bots simply because they don't pack the heavy firepower in a small front line package.

Bobucles, are you having a bad day at work or something? Knight already retorted this, but he did it politely. You've been really aggressive all afternoon (it's afternoon here, at least). Relax a little. You make good points, but you don't have to **** on people to make them listen.

Yes, direct synergies can have unintended side effects, but that doesn't mean they are entirely without virtue, you just have to be careful how they are implemented. Scout units and artillery being a simple example of synergy done right.

I'm not a fan of some of the specific buff units Tohron suggested, but I still gave him a like because I agree that in principle a synergistic unit can improve the performance of a unit without replacing the unit or giving it an upgrade.