A proposal for the implication of "mega" units

The Krogoth in TA was pretty UP, or was it perfectly balanced? :O

Anyway, it was so incredibly expensive, the only real time you'd see it was on a metal planet (Implying anyone EVER chose Core), it was also pretty slow, and surprisingly quite weak... If you sent the sucker alone- it was screwed. It probably could have done well for it to have a bit of a health boost though, maybe cost reduction.

Then what's the point of an army at that point, if you are just willy nilly going around with army's of do all mega bots.

That's a decrease in just the overall scale of the game, you move from legions to squads.

At that point you might as well not even bother building a army, as normal troops wouldn't even have a chance to fire against these mega bots, that is what the problem was in supcom 2.


Why can't we just rebalance the vanguard to be the some unit role? Why do we absolutely need a do all kill all unit/artillery that does 10 jobs in one to make a successful breach? Why can't we just use 10 units instead?


And you can't just say to increase variety either, variety should be produced first from strategy, and at this point all people seem to want is one unit versions of armys, rather then armys.

Id rather have a smaller less capable unit that is used to support normal units to make a invasion possible, then using a single all capable unit to even have a chance.

Break down the idea of a mega bot into it's needed components, and use them as individual units, or attach them to existing ones.

There is no need for any single unit to be so capable, that creates problems.

Everyone is over looking the most obvious solution to the issue.

Add mega units to the game, then add an option in the lobby to disable the construction of the mega units.

That way, the people that want them can get them, and the people that dont want them dont have to use them.

no, no, no, no, no ... NO!
don´t give me that "disable" argument ...
either it is propperly implemented or not at all ... there shouldn´t be ANY reason to disable any unit at all even if you play for mere fun ..
also think about metagameplay and ladder ...
it is a matter of how the vanilla maingame is supposed to be played .. if megabots don´t have any specific role to them then they have no place to be in it ..

Guys guys I have the answer, we have to distil it:

This works and I'm sure we could break up the idea of a orbital drop unit into multiple smaller parts, but the thing I cant get over is why? To me it feels like it just complicates things. I mean the same goal can be accomplished right now with a couple nukes and like 200 landers, but it just feels needlessly hard to orchestrate. Perhaps if there was a larger interplanetary transport besides teleporters it would work well.

Well we have wanted a expanded unit list, so why introduce units that decrease the need to have a varied army?

It should only be as complicated as building a normal ground attack force.

Sigh, two groups of people saying the exact same things over and over and over and over again (and both groups are guilty) is not even a debate, yes there was some sane and proper discussion, but there was precious little of it, and none of it reflects things as they stand now.... so why not have some more discussion on things as they are now... I see there is some going on now, so fingers crossed we see some new arguments from the anti camp. Why get caught up on my apparently wrong opinion and read and comment on what other people are saying or is my statement striking a raw nerve -- I certainly didn't expect to be quoted twice with lists of pages to show I'm wrong, (i may well be, probably am Im not inclined to re-read 43 pages) who flaming cares?! Furthermore in at least one of those polls megabots won out how about that...

edit: nope....same arguments...again... come on!

The game isn't even close to being finished, what is there to talk about? You are trying to apply a unit to a situation where a final balance isn't even finished.

That doesn't need a counter argument, that argument is insane.

It might be insane, but thats the whole point. Its not finished yet and you lot are arguing against mega-bots in any incarnation at all based on an unfinished games current meta and theory-crafting. Granted thats all anyone can do, and until a modder adds a megabot or two to test it out I guess we'll never find out because despite the (i think latest poll) winning out in their favor (megaunits), Uber listend to the earlier community majority, although to be honest that was sensible I would like some consideration for post 1.0 though and for less of the (distilled into single words)
Pointless, OP, and Variety (3) arguments because mega-bots represent none of those, and didn't even in games where they were blatantly and by design over the top.

Im arguing that overall mechanic is bad, not that it can't be balanced.

And if we can't argue based on our own experiences and knowledge, then you admit that you aren't going to accept any argument that isn't your own?

.

so tell me again why should megabots be in (aside from cool factor or variety)? what do mega bots accomplish
a current normal unittype or structure or varius combinations of any of them or both can´t?

The ability to survive lots of enemy anti-orbital fire while landing, and then surviving nuke strikes and bombing runs while clearing out a beachhead. So basically, give them a mountain of HP and just enough long-cooldown firepower to take out any nearby Umbrellas without too much delay, and they'll serve to clear a beachhead for orbital fabbers to reinforce with Anchors and Teleporters, without being able to engage standard ground armies cost-effectively.

So a nuke?

But I do agree on the nuke point, I really hate the current nuclear mechanics and would really really love to see a massive change on how they work and how their counter play works.

Is also love to see landing transports be made both easier with the UI, the way they try to spread out and the actual speed they descend for a actual combat drop.

Make it efficient, quick and easy, make moving units easier to do on a macro scale without the micromanagement problems and little bugs they currently have.

That way you can easily combat drop sufficient tanks, AA and nuclear prevention or defenders to fully begin the assault.


So essentially make landing easy enough that the land battle is the battle, the orbital battle is won by securing ground space, not by mass of orbital arms.

That is what I want to see.

TOTALY THIS ^^^^
the ability to invade a planet requiers that we are able to transport armies seamlessly from planet to planet ... mobile transportfunctionality with austreuses and later interplanetary multiunittansports and eventualy carriers needs to be optimised for that ...
people asked for D-Day or starshiptrooper like landing scenarios in the first place, and i don´t remember the majority of people asking to drop godzilla on a planet before the calvary arrives ...

there are many ways this could see an implementation in the game. This wouldn't necessarily be a game breaking unit.

It's quite likely, in fact, to be a fun unit.

not to mention we have several EXP units(or concepsts of) in PA already : the hailley, the SXX, the unit cannon. more will follow.

But I really wouldn't mind seeing a megabot crouching to squeeze through a teleporter then wreak havok.

As an exclusive Core player, who had a damned good ladder rank and won enough games of TA back in the day I can assure you core was playable It kinda fell apart at T2, but then the stronger core bombers allowed me to prevent those dirty Arm players ever getting a T2 factory up- and at T1 it was a fair fight.

Also Core t2 did work if you could get it fast enough- and early Goliath or 2 were almost unstoppable

i don´t realy care about single fun units, i care about overall fun gameplay ... i want every unittype to be able to work with each other and no single dominating unittype

I can say, the can could be pretty ironically scary, and when I first caught a look at the Krogath, after a lot of buildup from a friend I was like "WHAT IS THAT? O.O " In fear

surviving antiorbital fire would be giving hp to transports
surviving nukes could be provided with mobile antinuke units
for bombingruns you generaly have AA
a beachhead can also be cleared by a well combination of your unittypes